SP - General Bandit Base is just pointless

[orpeus_gamer]

Im going to keep this short and to the point.

Attacking a bandit base with only 9 men is just stupid, when you have a reserve of 100 men. and once a man falls I don't even get any fresh spawns? and more to the point when you end up with eight archers you have already had it because they cant hit the target for love or money ! and yet a bandit threw a javelin at max range and clopped my dude square in the head while he was running !?

no commander in his right mind would only send 9 men to face 20+ bandits, its annoying and just pointlessly limiting - why cant I attack a bandit base with 20 men or 100 men? I am the one attacking the base after all. what sense of realism means that HAVE to use nine men !?

seriously get a grip on this annoying bottle neck system. it sucked in warband and it sucks even more in banner lord.

if you really must make it harder than give them some fortifications... reduce the renown reward if you use more troops... or something. but seriously. its just stupid - this isn't some covert black ops mission... you are attacking a camp with the intention of slaughter - right now this doesn't feel like im the one poised to do the slaughtering

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

Im going to keep this short and to the point.

Attacking a bandit base with only 9 men is just stupid, when you have a reserve of 100 men. and once a man falls I don't even get any fresh spawns? and more to the point when you end up with eight archers you have already had it because they cant hit the target for love or money ! and yet a bandit threw a javelin at max range and clopped my dude square in the head while he was running !?

no commander in his right mind would only send 9 men to face 20+ bandits, its annoying and just pointlessly limiting - why cant I attack a bandit base with 20 men or 100 men? I am the one attacking the base after all. what sense of realism means that HAVE to use nine men !?

seriously get a grip on this annoying bottle neck system. it sucked in warband and it sucks even more in banner lord.

if you really must make it harder than give them some fortifications... reduce the renown reward if you use more troops... or something. but seriously. its just stupid - this isn't some covert black ops mission... you are attacking a camp with the intention of slaughter - right now this doesn't feel like im the one poised to do the slaughtering

no cant agree on this because i get the point of em. You can actually attack em by two ways if there are to many men in there for you to handle.

1st you go in and kill as many as you can then retreat and do it again
2nd You could wait it out untill theres lesser troops in there.

They are as i see it seen as an operation base for Bandits and if you dont clear em out they are gonna bugger your routes and endanger both you and trade as well as your allies weaker forces coming back from the front, So with that said i like how they can have a lot of troops at times operating from there which they do, since its their domain and they should also have some sort of security and home you must overcome. Like your allies with their castles

If you have a good medic and archers it shouldnt be much of a fuzz since im clearing out the roughest of the lairs atm without a problem. But sure sometimes you loose men but so you will do in any battle

ps. i wish though that you could make your own bandit lair or take em over for your own use of bandits playthru

 

[Waybook]

I've started to like doing bandit hideouts. They get more fun, when you have higher bow skill and good archers with you. I just think they should have a reasonable upper limit to how many bandits can be in a hideout. Something like 30 maybe.

 

[Colleptic]

My only two cents here is, they are fun at the beginning of the game...later in the game I just run by them, they are useless. My only thoughts here are to have them morph with the player, so they offer high level fights, and loot, so going in them at level 23, when you already have millions of gold is worth it. Also, the higher our level the longer it should take them to re-spawn. They become more lucrative in late game and and area to go for really good exp and rare loot...sort of like higher level raiding?

 

[CharlieMRCR]

1st you go in and kill as many as you can then retreat and do it again
2nd You could wait it out untill theres lesser troops in there.

I have to disagree. Bandit lairs are not tuned well ATM. Attacking a bandit lair actually says if you fail the attack, the bandits will disperse. I take that to mean it's like Warband where if you fail the attack, the lair will just disappear. But that is obviously not implemented yet. So in the future, it's unlikely we'll be able to make multiple assaults.

Also, bandit groups don't seem tuned to actually move out the base regularly. I've never seen it happen. Any element of game design that requires the player to sit around doing nothing needs a serious look. If groups actually moved out regularly, I'd absolutely agree with your 2nd point. But bandit camps are just not well implemented to be considered "good" ATM.

A LOT of the game is tuned way up from Warband thanks to ranged weapons getting an accuracy buff, and this extends to bandit camps. Your soldiers just don't reliably hold up their shields, compounding the issue. That's pretty annoying when a javelin headshot is a 1 hit kill. The game also values quantity over quality thanks to the stun-locking quantity gets you. As camps are tuned right now, you can actually aggro 20 guys at once if they all spawned in the same room.

I agree that currently, you can complete bandit lairs by making multiple assaults, but that's unlikely to be the case in the future. In which case, bandit lairs are over-tuned. TW could also increase the rate at which bandits leave the lair, but it just doesn't happen frequently enough to be considered good game design.

edit: So maybe OP saying they are pointless is an overstatement, but I'm closer to his opinion because they are not tuned well enough to be considered good.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

I have to disagree. Bandit lairs are not tuned well ATM. Attacking a bandit lair actually says if you fail the attack, the bandits will disperse. I take that to mean it's like Warband where if you fail the attack, the lair will just disappear. But that is obviously not implemented yet. So in the future, it's unlikely we'll be able to make multiple assaults.

Also, bandit groups don't seem tuned to actually move out the base regularly. I've never seen it happen. Any element of game design that requires the player to sit around doing nothing needs a serious look. If groups actually moved out regularly, I'd absolutely agree with your 2nd point. But bandit camps are just not well implemented to be considered "good" ATM.

A LOT of the game is tuned way up from Warband thanks to ranged weapons getting an accuracy buff, and this extends to bandit camps. Your soldiers just don't reliably hold up their shields, compounding the issue. That's pretty annoying when a javelin headshot is a 1 hit kill. The game also values quantity over quality thanks to the stun-locking quantity gets you. As camps are tuned right now, you can actually aggro 20 guys at once if they all spawned in the same room.

I agree that currently, you can complete bandit lairs by making multiple assaults, but that's unlikely to be the case in the future. In which case, bandit lairs are over-tuned. TW could also increase the rate at which bandits leave the lair, but it just doesn't happen frequently enough to be considered good game design.

But it shouldnt just disappear when you fail. If that was the case the game would make no sense.

Weird because ive seen em almost empty out plenty of times from even 70 to 8 going out on their operations which makes this game so wonderfully dynamic. But seems were playing two different games or versions (even if i remember that it was implemented way before to....

What are you talking about ? have you tried using shield wall formation ? (which i think you do) but mine is always holding up against arrows but sure some arrows can hit em in the legs or other places depending of the shield ofc
People will die in some way or another. Some in non perfect ways to and we have to live with it. All cant be as perfect as we want it to be and so isnt real life as well. Because people will die from all kinds of mistakes there to. If we now have to get some kind of sense in to the argument. There will always be something to ***** about if we continue to nitpick everything. Sure AI could need some tweaks especially when AI commands formations but some things we just cant get so perfect or its something i wouldnt want either because it would be to OP and just not fun to. Also sometimes its yours and mine mistakes we do when commanding em to.

Also to add sure their throws and arrows can be very accurate at times but i also see a lot of misses. And it comes both ways. Heck i saw one of my footsoldiers lobbed a javelin straight to someones face like 40-50 something meters away, My best arrow shot is 150m atm and javeline 60 something to the throat to xD

 

[CharlieMRCR]

But is shouldnt just disappear when you fail. If that was the case the game would make no sense.

Weird because ive seen em empty out plenty of times from even 70 going out on their operations which makes this game so wonderfully dynamic. But seems were playing two different games or versions (even if i thought it was implemented before to....

What are you talking about ? have you tried using shield wall formation ? mine is always holding up against arrows but sure some arrows can hit em in the legs or other places depending of the shield ofc

To your first point, if TW keeps it so multiple assaults are possible moving forward, yes. BUT the text is copy pasted from Warband. This leads me to think they will work like Warband did. In which case they would disappear. I could be wrong though. What the game is simulating is that the bandits just leave that hideout after you retreat.

To your second point, yeah I'm not saying they NEVER go out. But it's just not frequent enough that sitting around doing nothing for days on end in a game where you age and a year is like 100 days or w/e is good game design.

To your third point, the AI will drop their shields when they attack, and it does happen when ranged attacks are coming in.

We don't actually disagree much, I think. I'm just saying lairs are not tuned well enough to be considered "well-implemented." The game is going to be in early access for a year. I'd be surprised if how lairs are tuned now is what TW thinks is good.

edit: Oh, I forgot to agree with Waybrook. Yeah, I think just capping the number of bandits at 30, and making sure they don't spawn in batches of 20, which did happen to me, would also be good.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

To your first point, if TW keeps it so multiple assaults are possible moving forward, yes. BUT the text is copy pasted from Warband. This leads me to think they will work like Warband did. In which case they would disappear. I could be wrong though. What the game is simulating is that the bandits just leave that hideout after you retreat.

To your second point, yeah I'm not saying they NEVER go out. But it's just not frequent enough that sitting around doing nothing for days on end in a game where you age and a year is like 100 days or w/e is good game design.

To your third point, the AI will drop their shields when they attack, and it does happen when ranged attacks are coming in.

We don't actually disagree much, I think. I'm just saying lairs are not tuned well enough to be considered "well-implemented." The game is going to be in early access for a year. I'd be surprised if how lairs are tuned now is what TW thinks is good.

But you can multiple assault it. Retreat by exit the zone then heal up and go for it again.
Yeah if you push the attack button they will start to move up lowering it at times to gain extra speed..especilly when they are close. Use move order to get closer or move to enemy command if i remember it correctly. Im only using charge button when i know they are not much of a threat or when they are close towards my tight formation charging at me or im at range to charge. But i also make sure they dont have javelins set to throw when im doing it or else im asking for it. However if you have inf with javelines set they might lower it to throw if you dont have hold fire on

 

[TheChewieShow]

I downloaded a mod from Nexus that lets me take 50 troops into the hideouts. So worth it!

 

[CharlieMRCR]

But you can multiple assault it. Retreat by exit the zone then heal up and go for it again.
Yeah if you push the attack button they will start to move up lowering it at times to gain extra speed..especilly when they are close. Use move order to get closer or move to enemy command if i remember it correctly. Im only using charge button when i know they are not much of a threat or when they are close towards my tight formation

Yes, I've agreed with you from the beginning that multiple assaults are a viable way to do lairs. But the game says the bandits will disperse if you fail the assault. The dispersing part is not implemented yet though. Once it is, multiple assaults will not be possible. If TW decides to not implement it, multiple assaults will continue to be viable.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

Yes, I've agreed with you from the beginning that multiple assaults are a viable way to do lairs. But the game says the bandits will disperse if you fail the assault. The dispersing part is not implemented yet though. Once it is, multiple assaults will not be possible. If TW decides to not implement it, multiple assaults will continue to be viable.

Yeah if they are gonna do it like that it needs to be fixed or balanced in a way. If you fail after one attempt i would go for that mod thingy.....But i wouldnt touch how many its inside there at times since it shows the bandits strength and what risk you have to take to get in there and then have to wait it out if you want to risk it for the biscuit But i like it as it is now and brings more challenge to it...but sure could argue that you dont get anything for clearing out the first 30 men in some magic powerplay **** you manage to pull off xD

 

[kranrot]

I don't feel like bandit camps are something hard to deal with.
But I don't like them in the current form as well.
First of all they must disapear for significant amout of time.
Secondly, bandit camp must be established only in disadvantaged areas where nobody cares about small bands of bandits sneacking around. So every such band should has a chance to establish bandit camp with probability in proportion of its size. That would be simple and meaningful.

But bois the developers have to fix all those crashes first. I'd forget about the game for a year at least.

 

[Jagati Khan]

Hideouts defo need some changes they are pretty lame right now for a few reasons.
Attacking multiple times is utterly ridiculous as mentioned above the game states they will vanish if you fail.
The text also states you can only take a small group with you as a large group would alert them and they would scatter.
Not to mention a mechanic that makes you attack repeatedly instead of just being balanced is daft to say the least.
The forest hideout maps are just poor and they do not feel like any sort of actual hideout.
Sitting there waiting for some of the bandits to leave is boring and detracts from the game and i have never seen any bandits leave them anyway.

Possible fixes -
Cap the amount of bandits in a hideout or increase the amount of soldiers you can take with you
Better maps with more variety (make them feel/look like hideouts)

 

[CharlieMRCR]

Hideouts defo need some changes they are pretty lame right now for a few reasons.
Attacking multiple times is utterly ridiculous as mentioned above the game states they will vanish if you fail.

Gotta correct myself, I did A BUNCH bandit lairs today and reread the text. It says your party will disperse. Which is maybe even worse, but also doesn't seem to be happening ATM. I found the best way to do them is to not aggro the room that most of the bandits spawn in. Eventually, the leader will come out and challenge you. But if you aggro 15 at once, that's when you tend to lose. It either goes very smoothly or is a complete crapshow.

 

[Maximuuus]

Hideouts are a joke.
They are as boring as they were in warband and sometimes they are 5 times longer to clean because the amount of ennemies is ridiculous.

Do something with that... Give us more options to solve that because it's just so cheap atm...

- Infiltration ok, but ennemies have to sleep then...
- attack with all the army but they are alerted so VS all bandits and they are in position.
- discuss and pay them so they can go away or join you...

Don't know, there are plenty solutions to bring variety, possibilities and FUN to hideout...

 

[Jagati Khan]

Gotta correct myself, I did A BUNCH bandit lairs today and reread the text. It says your party will disperse. Which is maybe even worse, but also doesn't seem to be happening ATM. I found the best way to do them is to not aggro the room that most of the bandits spawn in. Eventually, the leader will come out and challenge you. But if you aggro 15 at once, that's when you tend to lose. It either goes very smoothly or is a complete crapshow.

Yeah i just had to double check myself doesn't use those exact words but the meaning of what it does say is clear enough.

You would not wait for night or worry about keeping undetected otherwise.
For me it is not about them being easy or hard they just do not make sense at the moment and the mechanics around dealing with them need improving.
Oh look bandit hideout with 100 men lets send 10 men to die repeatedly til we win.
And we will only attack from one side so they can escape easily if they need to.
Any commander with at least 2 brain cells to rub together would encircle the hideout then crush it completely.

 

[Parthonax]

As a powerful king who owns many personal towns, villages, castles, and land, I find it beneath me to spend my time attacking bandit camps. We need a new position for settlements in addition to having a governer; Sheriff. A sheriff would patrol the lands around the settlement, destroy bandit lairs, hunt down bandit parties, and train and recruit troops for you. The offset could be having to pay sheriff fee's and wages for the party.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

As a powerful king who owns many personal towns, villages, castles, and land, I find it beneath me to spend my time attacking bandit camps. We need a new position for settlements in addition to having a governer; Sheriff. A sheriff would patrol the lands around the settlement, destroy bandit lairs, hunt down bandit parties, and train and recruit troops for you. The offset could be having to pay sheriff fee's and wages for the party.

Yes an Sheriff sounds like an good idea to keep the lands safish but not entirely

 

[Jagati Khan]

As a powerful king who owns many personal towns, villages, castles, and land, I find it beneath me to spend my time attacking bandit camps. We need a new position for settlements in addition to having a governer; Sheriff. A sheriff would patrol the lands around the settlement, destroy bandit lairs, hunt down bandit parties, and train and recruit troops for you. The offset could be having to pay sheriff fee's and wages for the party.

This is something i have mentioned a couple of times now the old Floris mod for warband gave you the option to send out patrols for a fee of course.

 

[tree-man of battania]

I for once enjoy bandit camps. You feel like comandos on a mission,

I would even make greater variety of bases so they dont get too boring.
Would even go further and add something like kidnapping missions in enemy towns and castles.