"Baldur’s Gate 3 is Causing Some Developers to Panic"

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Hi TaleWorlds, this video is about Larian Studio that just released a FINISHED GAME, it's called Baldur's Gates III.

It's also about "raising the standard of the video game industry" in order to provide quality products to players.

Please, be our guests, take a moment and watch it, I'm sure you can learn a thing or two from it.

(btw I'm not the author)



ps: that being said...warehouses, dynasty management features and so many others things, you guys are on it ? Can we expect that anytime soon ? Because it's been a while since Bannerlord has been released and you know, mods are often broken because the updates...blablabla. Just wondering he 🤭
 
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BG3 is a sequel to a classic game by a successful RPG developer that was making good games in the same basic vein prior.

Name recognition, nostalgia, good reputation, no BS monetization, and not trying to copy and shoehorn every new fangled AAA feature into the game to keep up with the Joneses but focusing on what this kind of game should do best all went into BG3.

Bannerlord actually has a lot in common with it, the big differences being TW is like 1/4th the size of Larian's BG3 team, probably had less money thrown at them to make Bannerlord, and they were more indecisive about the direction of the game during development - which is also a more complicated game in some ways I would think - the turn based with pause formula is not very demanding compared to the kind of crazy stuff Bannerlord's mass real time combat involves.

So I don't really think there's that much for them to learn or that they deserve flak for not being Larian, which had the fortune of a variety of things converging in their favor when they were given a major IP to work on. Credit is certainly due to them for handling that opportunity better than most would, however.
 
BG3 is a sequel to a classic game by a successful RPG developer that was making good games in the same basic vein prior.

Name recognition, nostalgia, good reputation, no BS monetization, and not trying to copy and shoehorn every new fangled AAA feature into the game to keep up with the Joneses but focusing on what this kind of game should do best all went into BG3.

Bannerlord actually has a lot in common with it, the big differences being TW is like 1/4th the size of Larian's BG3 team, probably had less money thrown at them to make Bannerlord, and they were more indecisive about the direction of the game during development - which is also a more complicated game in some ways I would think - the turn based with pause formula is not very demanding compared to the kind of crazy stuff Bannerlord's mass real time combat involves.

So I don't really think there's that much for them to learn or that they deserve flak for not being Larian, which had the fortune of a variety of things converging in their favor when they were given a major IP to work on. Credit is certainly due to them for handling that opportunity better than most would, however.
You might be correct about size, recognition and budget comparaison. But I don't think this is the right angle to see the problem.

Taleworlds took the decision to develop an ambitious game on their own, knowing how difficult it will be to handle that much work, also knowing they were going to trap players (and modders ?) in some endless updates timeloop for YEARS to come, aware their product will be unfinished and lacking basic features (we sure can make a list).

And knowing all that, they sold it around $50 from start, through a pre-release state and since the full (?) release they now keep making adverts about, sales or not. Adverts for an unfinished game, once again.

But wait, there is more. It's not like they didn't have prior experience. They made Warband and various iterations of it. They knew what it took to develop that kind of game. As far as I know, no one forced them for some even more ambitious sequel (or prequel ?), that will need more ressources, talents and management. They just thought it was ok to repeat the same process: release a delux template and update it for years, right under our nose.

So yeah, sorry, I don't think it's a matter of size, recognition and money only, but common sense and good planning.

It's probably safe to say today is still early for Taleworlds to release such a game as Mount & Blade: Bannerlord.

But they aren't the only one to blame here. There are a lot of studio/editors like them, whatever their ressources, names, size, budget, country. It's greediness or poor planning everywhere. Most of them have a sneaky or clumsy way to not deliver finished games for a reason or another. It's a whole generation of devs, studios, editors responsible of the actual state of video game industry. A state where players are the real losers.

You want to play Street Fighters ? Sure ! But you will end up with a basic game, then you gonna have to pay season pass for more characters, etc.

You want to play Stellaris ? Sure ! Do you also have money for DLC ?

You want to play Cyberpunk 2047 ? Sure ! But wait...the game needs serious updates.

[add your fav game here]

I remember a time when you bought a game and then...that was it, you had your game.

I do hope the next generation of devs will understand this and respect the players by releasing finished games. Whatever if it's AAA or not. Then we could consider that "the standards has been raised".
 
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waiting on the white knights to show up and proclaim:

" BUT OFFICIAL RELEAZ IS JUST A MAKRETING TERM !!11! NO ONE REALLY EXPECTZ A GAME TO BE FINISHED UPON RELEAZ !!1 "
 
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Don’t lump TaleWorlds in with greedy devs who over monetize there games. At least Bannerlord has no in game purchases and is a „complete“ game. Baldurs gate is a new standard but Bannerlord is still a great game even with its issues. The reason I still ply Bannerlord is because it is not like most games these days that cram microtransactions down your throat.
 
waiting on the white knights to show up and proclaim:

" BUT OFFICIAL RELEAZ IS JUST A MAKRETING TERM !!11! NO ONE REALLY EXPECTZ A GAME TO BE FINISHED UPON RELEAZ !!1 "
Claiming this would be a bad a signal sent to video games industry.

If players (us) want things to change, they also need to see the problems for what they are, stop lying to themselves, skirmishing/trolling each other for whatever reason and agreeing with the actuals models.

I don't mind a fix or two, but at the end of the day: official release = finished game, period.
 
Claiming this would be a bad a signal sent to video games industry.

If players (us) want things to change, they also need to see the problems for what they are, stop lying to themselves, skirmishing/trolling each other for whatever reason and agreeing with the actuals models.

I don't mind a fix or two, but at the end of the day: official release = finished game, period.

there are people here who think this way.

i've come accross a dude who went on for 2 forums pages defending TW for releasing a broken / unfinished product because "official release is just marketing and doesn't mean anything".

trying to reason with him was totally futile.
 
Don’t lump TaleWorlds in with greedy devs who over monetize there games. At least Bannerlord has no in game purchases and is a „complete“ game. Baldurs gate is a new standard but Bannerlord is still a great game even with its issues. The reason I still ply Bannerlord is because it is not like most games these days that cram microtransactions down your throat.

Rather than "greedy" they are more in the "poor planning" side of things, which isn't better for the players.

No, Bannerlord isn't a "complete" game.

Micro-transaction or DLC aren't the problem here.

The problem is that the game is unfinished, constantly updated and rely too much on modders to provide lacking features. And they sold it full price.

I simply don't agree with that and, I suppose, you shouldn't as well. (not saying the game is bad, but unfinished, not the same)
 
Don’t lump TaleWorlds in with greedy devs who over monetize there games. At least Bannerlord has no in game purchases and is a „complete“ game. Baldurs gate is a new standard but Bannerlord is still a great game even with its issues. The reason I still ply Bannerlord is because it is not like most games these days that cram microtransactions down your throat.

the problem with TW is that they had a game in EA for two years, they collected a heap of feedback, suggestions, bug reports you name it; went on to "officially release" a totally broken and incomplete game reglardless and whilst they may not have in-game monetization, they produced (an equally unfinished, broken) version for consoles in record time which makes them have to now work on fixing and completing two separate versions of the game.
 
Rather than "greedy" they are more in the "poor planning" side of things, which isn't better for the players.

No, Bannerlord isn't a "complete" game.

Micro-transaction or DLC aren't the problem here.

The problem is that the game is unfinished, constantly updated and rely too much on modders to provide lacking features.
When/if BG3 begins being modded people would say the same thing that „modders“ are adding lacking features. Mods are literally modifications that add new features to games, that’s what they are for. And I play on console and still enjoy the game without mods. Of course poor planning is still an issue.
 
And another one, because why not ?

"when it comes for modern gaming (...) when you buy a game on the release there is a really good chance that you're buying a game to be a beta tester"

 
Rather than "greedy" they are more in the "poor planning" side of things, which isn't better for the players.

No, Bannerlord isn't a "complete" game.

Micro-transaction or DLC aren't the problem here.

The problem is that the game is unfinished, constantly updated and rely too much on modders to provide lacking features. And they sold it full price.

I simply don't agree with that and, I suppose, you shouldn't as well. (not saying the game is bad, but unfinished, not the same)
The biggest difference between Taleworlds and Larian is that Larian did have an early access where they LISTENED TO THE COMMUNITY. Taleworlds gave us early access because they wanted free beta testers that would actually pay them money, they took advantage of the hype.

Look at the Multiplayer, is a hot mess because TW ignored the whole community about it, and so many singleplayer suggestions are now forgotten forever
 
The biggest difference between Taleworlds and Larian is that Larian did have an early access where they LISTENED TO THE COMMUNITY. Taleworlds gave us early access because they wanted free beta testers that would actually pay them money, they took advantage of the hype.

Look at the Multiplayer, is a hot mess because TW ignored the whole community about it, and so many singleplayer suggestions are now forgotten forever
This is a moronic take as the community for Bannerlord has never been demanding the same things. Sure there are folks that jump into every complaint and say “i agree” but listening to every player would have had a far more incomprehensible game.

Don’t confuse your opinion as if it’s the “community”. People were asking for Mesoamericans, Elves, plate mail, firearms, unlimited companions (even though companions are a HUGE favoritism to the player as is), pidgeon cell phones, more suggestions then I can count that would shatter what economy is there……you have to shift through a lot crap.
 
This is a moronic take as the community for Bannerlord has never been demanding the same things. Sure there are folks that jump into every complaint and say “i agree” but listening to every player would have had a far more incomprehensible game.

Don’t confuse your opinion as if it’s the “community”. People were asking for Mesoamericans, Elves, plate mail, firearms, unlimited companions (even though companions are a HUGE favoritism to the player as is), pidgeon cell phones, more suggestions then I can count that would shatter what economy is there……you have to shift through a lot crap.
I think it's quite obvious I'm not taking about the outlandish idea of putting elves into the game which would make no sense. But even the smallest ideas that can and are actually implemented by modders were not even considered by Taleworlds hence why so many people say this game is lacking a soul, and this is not just the forums but a large portion of the players, from casuals to reviewers (which also should count as casuals lol) to well most of us here
 
This is a moronic take as the community for Bannerlord has never been demanding the same things. Sure there are folks that jump into every complaint and say “i agree” but listening to every player would have had a far more incomprehensible game.

Don’t confuse your opinion as if it’s the “community”. People were asking for Mesoamericans, Elves, plate mail, firearms, unlimited companions (even though companions are a HUGE favoritism to the player as is), pidgeon cell phones, more suggestions then I can count that would shatter what economy is there……you have to shift through a lot crap.

Besides your insulting tone this isnt necessarily the case. I followed the 3000+ paged Wishlist for the sequel to Warband pretty regularly. Basic common sense is your first tool against non-sequitar'ed, random, outlandish and totally off-point requests. Pretty easy to establish a consensus with the majority of serious fans in what aspects of the game they would like to see developed. Not saying that everything makes the list but its definetly a good way to keep support and an informed relationship with your base.
 
People were asking for Mesoamericans, Elves, plate mail, firearms, unlimited companions (even though companions are a HUGE favoritism to the player as is), pidgeon cell phones, more suggestions then I can count that would shatter what economy is there……you have to shift through a lot crap.
Of course if you start pointing elves and firearms demands for Bannerlord we can safely say devs should never listen to players suggestions.

In the other hands, I've seen more serious propositions, led by common sens this time, about diplomacy, politic, dynasty management or economy features. And I do believe TW completely underestimated (and underworked) these aspects of the game.

Let's take an example of politic/dynasty missing features:

Relationships between all members of the dynasties we patiently build are set to the bare minimum. Basically there is a trait system and...that's about it !

When your main dies and you got to choose a new heir well...this doesn't bother anyone in the game. No jealousy from a sibling, distant cousin scheming a civil war, some rival taking the opportunity to seize power, etc. It's just like "oh, ok, we got a new heir, long live our new king/queen". (Sucession Law and Civil War)

I have SO MANY other examples.

But to be fair, I think some ideas like this should have come directly from the devs when they brainstormed, years ago. They were supposed to be clever enough to deliver the best game possible, because they are professionnals and we are not.

Once released, a game like this should only be plagued by weird elves/firearms demands from players, since every others serious spot has been officially filled. And we are far from that.
 
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Larian had a well-conceived plan and they executed to the plan. TW has a solid core concept, buried under pile of half-baked, dissonant concepts, slowly and half-assedly implemented to a vague, incoherent plan.
 
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