Balancing Multiplayer. PLEASE READ

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FC|Rumplez

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Some context before we begin....
The group I play with are competitive Mordhau players. No we aren't try-hards. Some people in our discord that we premade with come out of a single match going
28K-3D-19A. Not kidding. We excel in a competitive setting and understand the learning curves and forming meta to all weapons, classes and builds. In this post I'm going to be direct and to the point. Everything that I will mention has been done by us in multiple settings and are proven to be as mentioned below. We've played all the factions and have played against other premades and from what we've seen using the units we've been using, there are some Irrefutable FACTS about some nations and their capabilities. That being said, here's what we've seen.




Where do I even start. oh yea, NERF STURGIA. Literally EVERY infantry unit in sturgia is incredibly strong. There is no argument you can present such as terrain or strategy to kill them. They are Very strong. Warrios 2h Axe can hit over Any shield in the game and wipe out shield units. The only other "peasant" class that equals their armor is Clan Warriors (we'll get to them in a second). Brigands? Useless really. Beserkers are just Beyond OP right now. Their great Axe or Northern2H are just brutal. Improved armor just makes them devastating. Varyag? Varyag are THE best unit on the field by FAR. Literal Spartan units should you take Imp Armor and Spear. Their sheild is so big that if you are behind them and they wind up for a strike, when they wind up their shield moves and the hitbox for the shield is big enough that you will clip their shield from behind them ambushing them and striking their back but instead you will hit their shield every 2nd or 3rd hit. Sturgia is Garunteed wins EVERY time on captains.

Weakest Faction? Easily Battannia Historically speaking... I know the theme. But you have GOT to give this faction something to work with as far as utility. Their archers do well I think. Cleary cavalry are lacking but such is the balancing act of factinos and themes. Infantry are just... garbage. Clan Warriors are forced to use spear and or sword and there's just no comparison. Clan Warriors LOSE. Savages are...hit and miss. Lacking in armor makes them The fastest flanking 2h class. yes....but speed isn't everything unless it has a S*** ton. IMO pike is cool and all but it's useless until there's a "Brace" mechanic of some kind to stop cavalry or be able to overhand a friendly shield wall to strike units ahead as intended for say a poleaxe. That being said they just can't AT ALL compete against any other factions flanking class. Menavlion weapons are 177 swing damage vs 120 with 2h sword (falx) for savages. Wow. you could argue swing speed but that means nothing if you're wacking them in the back which happens a lot in captains. Wildlings? I'm sorry but Javelins are incredibly useless unless you get the right position for it. If the unit infront of you is shielded you might as well just save your javs and chances are excellent your unit will die before you get to use them. Thus the Wildlings arsenal is Also Hot Garbage. Oathsworn are on the edge of being good but not quite. Sturdia's spear does 11 points more of damage than Oaths and the Highlander Bastard just Lacks in the damage required to be called good. While the other infantry units are lacking it weighs down Oaths and holds them back from their real capabilities.

I want to touch again on Javelins. Buff them? give them an arc after thrown so they can be thrown over a line of scrimmage? Buff the damage against shields? IDK where you would want to take it but they as of now depending on most terrain and common situations you face really don't have a place on the battlefield. They just aren't good. I would also add that if you take javelins you should get a serious movement bonus so that you can position to use them and I don't mean a little movement. I'd like to see a lot. Skirmishers for Aserai rely on theirs and they just don't have the speed to move around and use them IMO.

SLINGS are so meme worthy. There's nothing funnier than everyone on your team taking slings and just pummeling a single unit to death. Also useless.

Light units all around should get more movement speed. Position is important for this flanking class and I'd like to see them utilize it.

The last thing I can think of is DeathBlobbing. Literally Taking every unit the field and blobbing them together obsorbing enemy units in Massive encirclements. This is literally a Viable strategy and I'd like to see some kind of way to stop it. Squar and Schiltron formation can utlize the right idea but just isn't strong enough to stop it. I'd like to see a way to stop blobbing because it just takes all fun out of the game.

I will try to add/edit this post and give time stamps and I'd love for the Devs to come find us in out discord and talk more should they want to pick our brains further in our experiences or other players come talk to us and banter on with their experiences. Feel free to come find us here.

Thank you Taleworlds for going above expectations with this game so far and we hope you make trillions and continue the hard work <3


And please please please do more with captain mode. This is literally the Multiplayer game me we all wanted and it is absolutely amazing. I would play a Captains Ranked mode for sure.



4/1/2020
I would also like to see a ban function between factions and you could then pick the faction you'd like to play.
 
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Good points, but you should mention in the header that this is for captain mode primarily you are talking about
 

Riseaus

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I was going to respond talking about Skirmish, but since this is primarily about Captains mode I won't bother going into great detail.. I will say though for Skirmish, Asari are by far the worst faction, not Battania. Khuzait are bad too unless you go mass horse archers lol.
 

eyrawn

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Hi,

Thanks for a well written post. I think what you touched on shows that each faction has strengths/weaknesses. And I kind of think it should be that way. But give it time. There is balancing and tweaking to be done and we can only pray and hope TaleWorlds listens to the community. It is important due to the fact that in skirmishes/captains, we do not have the ability to let every player freely pick a faction (which would be cool tho to add flavor and interesting setups to comp team play).

With regards to Javelins, they could be improved (the throwing speed), but they are not useless. I have great success with Pilas for example and my God is it satisfying to land a perfect Pila to finish of someone.

I think that devs buffed shields so you have to use directional block to really let them shine. However, I feel that the shields right now are too absorbent if you block in wrong direction. The punishment should be greater for a wrong directional block. This will separate the good players from the bad.

I agree that light units should move and hit faster. This is to make less armored players a viable option if you are a skilled player. Kind of like how it was in cRPG.

Slings are cool, we need meme worthy items to have something to laugh at. No point of having them removed, but it shouldn't be at the sacrifice of another better item (which it is now).
 
Literally EVERY infantry unit in sturgia is incredibly strong. There is no argument you can present such as terrain or strategy to kill them.

Go all cavalry? The factions all have known strengths and weaknesses, if you're trying to out-infantry the faction with the best infantry in the game that's a player problem, not a balance issue as such.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
competitive and cpt mode lol, idk if this is a troll post or not

try maces against heavy infantry, or shock inf (even full cav archers work vs sturgia because they have ****ty archers)
 

FC|Rumplez

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Go all cavalry? The factions all have known strengths and weaknesses, if you're trying to out-infantry the faction with the best infantry in the game that's a player problem, not a balance issue as such.

go all cavalry for what, battania? battania can't seat or couch lances and they're cavalry just or Not strong. We've meme'd all camels or knights in game and it works...unfourtunetly. I seriously wish it didn't and that there was a a way to shutdown camels really hard but I've not seen it.
 

FC|Rumplez

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competitive and cpt mode lol, idk if this is a troll post or not

try maces against heavy infantry, or shock inf (even full cav archers work vs sturgia because they have ****ty archers)
on the contrary their archers can be Very effective. They can be a little slow but they still rock the same axe as the Warriors. The only mace available to Battania is the 2H maul which is ok but it's not nearly as effective as 1H. 1Handed maces to other factions pretty much oneshot headshot any heavy.
 

Flash118

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And please please please do more with captain mode. This is literally the Multiplayer game me we all wanted and it is absolutely amazing. I would play a Captains Ranked mode for sure.

pls just speak only for you. captain is just for casuals. if they want to add a rank system they should do it on skirmish
 

FC|Rumplez

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competetive mordhau players calling javelins useless while throwings are still beyond broken... classic

E. oh lol its just captain nvm zzz
Useless against anything shielded. They also aren't broken. They require skill to hit and functionally do their job in damage. I'd also appreciate if you'd drop snarky remarks such as "classic" and talk about the actual issue rather than just be another irrelevent post.
 

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Grandmaster Knight
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Useless against anything shielded. They also aren't broken. They require skill to hit and functionally do their job in damage. I'd also appreciate if you'd drop snarky remarks such as "classic" and talk about the actual issue rather than just be another irrelevent post.
I don't know about anything captain mode related but in skirmish they're a huge threat to everything. too accurate, too much damage, javs are even fine in melee lol
 

FC|Rumplez

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pls just speak only for you. captain is just for casuals. if they want to add a rank system they should do it on skirmish
Captain Isnt just for casuals...They could overturn the Conqueror's Blade community and take that market by storm. People wouldn't have to farm for units they could just go into a game pick their heavy unit they wanted and still play competitive game mode with friends. If all they did was balance it's system and improve matchmaking and add cosmetics, captains mode would flourish if marketed. You've got to think bigger picture. M&B right now is the 3rd most talked about game on steam and it is going to take 2nd place. I only hope Taleworlds really expands on these things and gets the dev teams needed to have something big to push out in 6 months because it will take people by surprise and they'll only want to play more. Look at scum the game. Scum started out as a nobody but was actively pumping out patches ever 3rd day roughly and have kept their fanbase because people saw the progress. M&B has come a long way but I also think it can obsorb it's entire competition because no one is doing what they're doing and the were the creators of true hack and slash.
 

FC|Rumplez

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I don't know about anything captain mode related but in skirmish they're a huge threat to everything. too accurate, too much damage, javs are even fine in melee lol
I've not had the pleasure to really play any of the other modes but a few times and we kinda felt the literacy level was...lacking lol. When trying to take objectives people were just tunnel visioning and zerging so we wanted to give it a month before really exploring siege or other game mode because people really just wanted to slash things rather than win. That only confirms your observation because people just want to use light armored heavy 2handers so they are exposed to javelins and I completely see your side.
 

Flash118

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Captain Isnt just for casuals...They could overturn the Conqueror's Blade community and take that market by storm. People wouldn't have to farm for units they could just go into a game pick their heavy unit they wanted and still play competitive game mode with friends. If all they did was balance it's system and improve matchmaking and add cosmetics, captains mode would flourish if marketed. You've got to think bigger picture. M&B right now is the 3rd most talked about game on steam and it is going to take 2nd place. I only hope Taleworlds really expands on these things and gets the dev teams needed to have something big to push out in 6 months because it will take people by surprise and they'll only want to play more. Look at scum the game. Scum started out as a nobody but was actively pumping out patches ever 3rd day roughly and have kept their fanbase because people saw the progress. M&B has come a long way but I also think it can obsorb it's entire competition because no one is doing what they're doing and the were the creators of true hack and slash.
captain mode in bannerlords is totally diffrent to conquerors blade wtf. only the casuals would swap but this would not bring the competetiv guys from conquerors blade.
 

FC|Rumplez

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captain mode in bannerlords is totally diffrent to conquerors blade wtf. only the casuals would swap but this would not bring the competetiv guys from conquerors blade.
Coming from someone with 400 hours in the game and had an alliance sitting in second place and shut down all the zerg factions. I'm telling you it could. Conqueror's Blade also had to reduce their XP requirements to unlocks troops and other things and added a few pay to win functions in the game. In bannerlord there isn't any. It's purely strategy which is what the Conqueror's Blade community wanted to begin with. Conqueror's Blade itself as a whole has already made it's fanbase feel betrayed in promised content. Taleworlds could literally Reap their mistake and it would take little effort to do it so long as they keep unit selection very open.
 

bblzd

Veteran
M&B
Some decent suggestions but I would leave out wording like "irrefutable facts" and "beyond OP" "100% winrate" etc. since it's not always true and we need to think rationally about making changes and how they might affect all game modes.

Ignore the Skirmish die-hards who don't see the potential of Captain's Mode, they've been like that throughout the beta and only making balance suggestions for their preferred game mode while ignoring how it can effect both Single Player and Captain's Mode. Luckily there are many who do see the potential of competitively played Captain's Mode, including the developers. Just because there are many new players learning how to play right now does not change that.
 

Rangah

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
they've been like that throughout the beta and only making balance suggestions for their preferred game mode while ignoring how it can effect both Single Player and Captain's Mode.
Singleplayer and MP are balanced seperately. However...

Balancing PvP and what is essentially PvE (captain) simultaneously makes no sense. Weapons behave differently when handled by bots or players. This is a terrible design choice by TW that handicaps both modes in the end.
 
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