Balancing bows/xbows

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Forsee

Veteran
IT'S NOT A THREAD ABOUT BUFFING/NERFING ARCHERS IG GENERAL!

First, I need to say I didn't play 1.5.5 alot cause of NY weekend and recent server lags, but I definitely have some experience with this patch.
The problem is, that some shooting weapons are just alot better than others, that firstly makes several factions alot better for shooting, secondly reduces ingame variety of choosing perks, cause some of them are just being useless. Let's look closer on each faction shooting classes and perks.

Vlandia
It was a great change to make arbelists cost 120g instead of 110, but on recent patch xbows themselves are just too good. Although I think the damage is ok, recent aiming changes made them too easy to use. First, you shouldn't be able to release a bolt with perfect accuracy for close combat immediately on a single click if it's already set up. I think xbows need a time to line up a shot. Second, xbows are being a hard counter to archers, cause they can aim for a year without losing accuracy, waiting a perfect moment to release a shot. I think they should lose their accuracy after a few seconds (maybe 4-5), just like the bows do. All in all it should be hard to hold a heavy xbow in your hands for a long time. I heard you just want to make reload a bit longer, but IMO it doesn't solve the problem, cause xbows are just usually staying behind a cover on their reload and you still can do nothing with that, he shows up for a half second to shoot and then taking cover again, or just aiming at your cover preventing you to show up to do a single shot cause he will immediately oneshot you.

Battania

Battanian archers are the best rn cause of their long bows. They are relatively fast and deal **** ton of damage compared to other bows. Yeow long bow is not used, at least by me, cause in cav meta you can't afford that big delays between your shots and that damage is just not worth it when you can choose default long bow, especially with faster release perk. All fast bows are just bad and I will explain that later.

Sturgia

Sturgian faster bow is being the worst shooting weapon in game and their default hunting bow is just better in all aspects, even if you wanna choose fast shooting bow.
Hunting longbow is 2nd best bow in game in my opinion cause of it's damage an fire rate and it kinda strange that sturgian archers are being so good.

Khuzait

Is being the worst faction for archers, the only good thing about khuzait is their glaives. Recurve bow usually deal about 22dmg on body shot, it's inaccurate, not that fast and arrow ballistics is awful. Faster shortbows are not used so you have no option and should handle with that low damage 'heavy' bow. Light archers are good as they are.

Aserai

Is ok, you have a choice between recurve bow if you are facing a lot of cav and you need a drawing speed and composite bow if you wanna deal damage. It is a cav meta this patch so I usually choose recurve bow, even though it is bad itself, but usually your team just needs an archer to deal with cav. Composite bow seems fast enough if you look at it's fire rate, but it's crosshair locking is inconvenient, which causes in lower fire rate ingame.

Empire

Is good, but again, xbows need nerfs. Composite bow by far is not my favorite one, but I can't complain cause I have both an option to choose xbow, and a perfect 2h with my second perk.


Now let's talk about short bows, why are they so bad. With their accuracy rate it seems like they are meant to be close combat shooting weapon, cause you cannot handle using it on a distance, you just gonna miss every single shot and gonna deal zero damage. But in reality you can't afford these close combat fights because of cav being op atm, and even if you are lucky to have a perfect conditions to utilise you fast shooting, the damage is just too low. On top of that, even in close fights you will teamhit alot with that accuracy.

There's my suggestion to balance shooting weapons:

1. Slightly reduce battanian long bow's damage.
2. Increase Yeow longbow's fire rate an slightly reduce it's damage.
3. Increase recurve bow's accuracy and improve it's ballistics.
4. Give Khan's guard a perk with better long bow to choose between it and glaive.
5. OR swap sturgian hunting longbow and recurve bow stats.
6. Slightly reduce hunting longbow damage.
7. Slightly increase composite bow fire rate and reduce it's damage.
8. Reduce all shortbow's fire rate and increase it's damage or/and it's accuracy, especially sturgian fast hunting bow.
9. Give all xbows obligatory 1s aiming time.
10. Make all xbows aiming time not longer than 6-7s.

Maybe all slow longbows would be a good option when cav would be nerfed, so you might not be touching them rn.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
Big problem with the xbows is the middle reload progress, originally you could heavily disrupt xbows by pushing one mid reload, switching target, then back, and so on. Or by shooting a reloading xbow you force them to completely restart.

In most cases now, though you may disrupt their reload a little, they can continue reloading from the 50% point while moving. This means they have a lot more flexibility and ability to disengage then starting shooting again quicker.

It's a cool reload mechanic and makes sense, but it's been a huge buff to the xbow class since beta and should be reconsidered imo.
 

NIN3

Developer
NW
Hey!

Really like the suggestions you made. We haven't decided on archey balance yet since we are kind of held up with the upcoming cav changes, but obviously we are not “done with archery”.

We will talk about those suggestions internally, I had similar things in mind.

Anyway, I am not sure about the fact that crossbows are too good right now. I heard very mixed opinions on it. Sure they have a long aim time and high damage, but they also really struggle when they are getting pushed and its hard for them to do quick support sometimes. We saw it in the Draft Cup a couple of times. Maybe more players can voice their opinion on it.
 

Loyal2Odin

Sergeant
Hey!

Really like the suggestions you made. We haven't decided on archey balance yet since we are kind of held up with the upcoming cav changes, but obviously we are not “done with archery”.

We will talk about those suggestions internally, I had similar things in mind.

Anyway, I am not sure about the fact that crossbows are too good right now. I heard very mixed opinions on it. Sure they have a long aim time and high damage, but they also really struggle when they are getting pushed and its hard for them to do quick support sometimes. We saw it in the Draft Cup a couple of times. Maybe more players can voice their opinion on it.
I think a slight increase in reload time would do the trick for now. Another option is to increase the time it takes to reach maximum accuracy slightly. If that proves insufficient we could always look for more options..
 

Forsee

Veteran
I think a slight increase in reload time would do the trick for now. Another option is to increase the time it takes to reach maximum accuracy slightly. If that proves insufficient we could always look for more options..
As I said increasing reload time won't do much, cause xbows are usually taking covers on reload and anyway they are waiting a perfect conditions to show up and shoot, doesn't matter if they are reloading or just looking at the battlefield from the cover or aiming from the safe spot for a week. The problem is, they have no downtime between aiming with perfect accuracy and reloading, which causes in their consistent headshots, cause you can't cover yourself with a shield 100% of the time in a fight, while they can aim for a year. Bows have a short time window to shoot and after that, if they missed it and didn't found a moment to release an arrow, they have to draw again.
 

WMorton

Veteran
honestly ill be more blunt than my main home slice who put up this message. Bows are ****, Xbows are OP. Bows in general feel inaccurate as hell, either take to long to become accurate or are fast but never accurate. Also, why are there so many different types of bows? Like I get it you want variety but isn't a fast bow and fast release bow practically the same thing? because ingame I find both of them to be about as fast as eachother, and as ****ty and inaccurate as eachother. I get that you were trying something new, but I simply don't think it worked, bows used to feel natural but now pulling back a bow feels artificial like im getting some hands on instruction by a handsome hairy cowboy name Todd who is showing me how to play pool for the first time
 
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