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Balance Patch: design insights + full changelog

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Ling*

Knight at Arms
Really looking forward to the mechanical changes to tackle the Rambo issue. Excited to see what the team comes up with as a solution, while keeping in mind the recommendations from the community in previous discussions.
 

TeddyPontiac

Veteran
Got to play a few matches and I did enjoy the perk changes great job! 👍 In regards to the Rambo issue in captain mode I feel that a “leash” mechanic would be an easy solution. Meaning after the player reaches an X amount of distance the regiment will cancel previous given orders and return to following the player.
 

Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
@NIN3
May I ask why aserai mamluke got so much love and other heavy cav didn't? He gets two amazing perks: either a heavy lance with +33% speed bonus damage for thrusts or the best lance in the game, with a good shield and -15% mount ranged taken. No other heavy cav gets such an amazing choice. Vlandian knight can only choose a lance that is worse or a shield with some damage reductions, druzhinnik gets to choose between two lances, both are worse than the bamboo lance, lancer gets to choose between two lances that are also worse than the bamboo lance and the cataphract has it the worst because if he gets a lance it's a default one.

Have you considered streamlining the equipment and perks so everyone gets to choose similar equipment and perks plus 1 or 2 faction-specific perks? I think it makes the most sense balance-wise.
 

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
[...]
All in all, I enjoy playing as or against Sturgia the least because there is just very little flexibility. You are forced to play Varyag in most situations, and are occasionally allowed to play Berserker. You will win or lose based on which map you're on and which faction you're up against, assuming both teams are competent. A 56% percent win rate is not surprising, since its a 1/6 chance you'll be up against the one faction that can really screw you over and you're likely to win against the other factions.
[...]
Thank you for your detailed insights. Ill look into that balance more on detail in the future like I said. For now though I checked the troop counts and increased them for sturgia, to mirror those from other faction with similar troops. They really were lower across the board for some reason.

what about the request for giving spears swings when u drop ur shield ?
what's ur vision of that if i may ask ?
Honestly not really something we are planning to do sorry.

May I ask why aserai mamluke got so much love and other heavy cav didn't? He gets two amazing perks: either a heavy lance with +33% speed bonus damage for thrusts or the best lance in the game, with a good shield and -15% mount ranged taken. No other heavy cav gets such an amazing choice. Vlandian knight can only choose a lance that is worse or a shield with some damage reductions, druzhinnik gets to choose between two lances, both are worse than the bamboo lance, lancer gets to choose between two lances that are also worse than the bamboo lance and the cataphract has it the worst because if he gets a lance it's a default one.
The main reason why those perks for the mamluke are so different from the ones from other factions is that I went through an effort to combine unused perks, to create better ones (without making the effects too complicated). The Lancer and Dragoon perks are actually a result of that, but also perks of other factions. I didnt do much fine balancing for cavalry weapons yet. Overall the mamluke wasn't really performing so well, just like aserai as a faction, so its probably ok that it got slightly more powerful perks the moment.


Anway thank you all for your great feedback and kind words so far!
 
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Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Taleworlds dev communicating / explaining the changes? Impossible, hersey, you must be punished
 

Aliaksandr

Sergeant
Many thanks to @NIN3 and all the developers involved in this fix! You have done more at once than what was done the whole year before!
But just as important, the developers, represented by the wonderful @NIN3, have resurrected feedback from the gaming community.
Keep it up guys!
 

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
Meaning after the player reaches an X amount of distance the regiment will cancel previous given orders and return to following the player.
I don't play the bot killing mode but I think group nerfs/buffs might be interesting. So that would look like:

Speed bonus if there are troops nearby, or speed penalty if you get further away from your troops
If your troops get attacked in the rear they get a debuff in some way
If the captain is nearby they get a buff
If friendly troops are reinforcing they get a buff
If your troops are heavily outnumbered you get a nerf.

Kind like Total War and I think this system would improve teamwork and the diversity of the mode.
It does require kind of an overhaul of the mode and I don't know if it is possible to actively modify stats of troops. Nonetheless it is an interesting proposal and could really set the mode from bot slashing to an actual captain mode.
You could compare it to NW where you had music to buff reloading speed and what not.
 
This actually looks like balancing, good job. Its not the usual scramble of 1000 things which makes the game completely different and evenly unbalanced, just in a different way.
 

VicbossOG

Regular
Can you unnerf the Aserai Mamluke bow? It seems to be performing far worse than before the patch came out, which is sort of unfair considering Mamlukes have to compete with Khuzait Lancers who have both better weapons and better bows. I should add that I'm specifically referring to its accuracy on horseback, particularly while moving. That probably has more to do with the Mameluke's skills rather than the bows themselves.
 

VicbossOG

Regular
I don't play the bot killing mode but I think group nerfs/buffs might be interesting. So that would look like:

Speed bonus if there are troops nearby, or speed penalty if you get further away from your troops
If your troops get attacked in the rear they get a debuff in some way
If the captain is nearby they get a buff
If friendly troops are reinforcing they get a buff
If your troops are heavily outnumbered you get a nerf.

Kind like Total War and I think this system would improve teamwork and the diversity of the mode.
It does require kind of an overhaul of the mode and I don't know if it is possible to actively modify stats of troops. Nonetheless it is an interesting proposal and could really set the mode from bot slashing to an actual captain mode.
You could compare it to NW where you had music to buff reloading speed and what not.
You don't even play the mode and are trying to balance it. smh. Why don't you actually try it out and you'll find it's a lot deeper than a 'bot killing mode'.
 

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
You don't even play the mode and are trying to balance it. smh. Why don't you actually try it out and you'll find it's a lot deeper than a 'bot killing mode'.
I don't play it because I find it boring and calling it captain is a stretch at most, I also didn't try to balance it just improve it and this will also fix the "rambo" issue. The fact that Skirmish teams win captain tournaments tells me enough to say that it isn't much deeper than bot killing mode.

Imagine getting defensive to someone who is trying to improve the game, LMFAO XD OMG SO FUNNY.
 

Aliaksandr

Sergeant
I don't play it because I find it boring and calling it captain is a stretch at most, I also didn't try to balance it just improve it and this will also fix the "rambo" issue. The fact that Skirmish teams win captain tournaments tells me enough to say that it isn't much deeper than bot killing mode.

Imagine getting defensive to someone who is trying to improve the game, LMFAO XD OMG SO FUNNY.
To make any progress in correcting the distorted understanding of the essence of the captain mod, maybe one should start by complicating his "insults", for example, to the "mode of managing the kills of controlled bots"?
Skirmish teams win mainly through the exploitation of Rambo tactics. Maybe team interaction was also important, thanks to more joint games. But entering the captain mode alone, they are not distinguishable in the general mass of noobs. However, I think as well as experienced captains in skirmish mode. And if your suggestions to reduce the attractiveness of Rambo tactics will prevent unfair victories and increase the attractiveness of Captain Mode for new and experienced players from other MP modes, then I will support them and thank you.
 
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NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
Hey everyone, we have applied a hotfix today, you can find the changes below. Thanks to everyone in this and the other threads, for your feedback and contribution.

General:
Increased the speed of the Sergeant axe
Fixed the fire rate of the Superior Bow, which was not displayed correctly
Removed thrust damage factors from weapons that can't thrust
Fixed the description of the composite bow perk

Captain:
Fixed a bug that caused some vlandian Sergeant troops to spawn without shields or weapons
Increased troop counts of the sturgian Light Infantry, Skirmisher and Heavy Infantry

TDM + Siege:
The looter perk now only grants +10 gold per kill
Mounted Archer cost 250 -> 220

Duel:
Added a Duel Sword perk to heavy infantry classes, that grants a two handed sword
All money gain perks like looter or generous lord have been removed
Added new perks in their stead:
  • Looter -> Athletic, grants +7% movement speed
  • Generous Lord -> Tournament Master, grants a random heavy or long lance from any faction
  • Blood Money -> Bow and Arrows, grants a bow and arrows
 
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VicbossOG

Regular
I don't play it because I find it boring and calling it captain is a stretch at most, I also didn't try to balance it just improve it and this will also fix the "rambo" issue. The fact that Skirmish teams win captain tournaments tells me enough to say that it isn't much deeper than bot killing mode.

Imagine getting defensive to someone who is trying to improve the game, LMFAO XD OMG SO FUNNY.
Skirmish teams win captain tournaments... in tournaments that 90% of the playerbase doesn't care about. Once there is an ingame ranking system, it will be fairly obvious that the mode is a lot deeper than simply being able to Rambo effectively. Also, that's hardly surprising that people who are good in one mode of the game will probably be good in another mode of the game. Even in Captain Mode your personal ability to fight is important, but it's not the most important element of the mode by any means.
 

RitoDurito

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Hey everyone, we have applied a hotfix today, you can find the changes below. Thanks to everyone in this and the other threads, for your feedback and contribution.

General:
Increased the speed of the Sergeant axe
Fixed the fire rate of the Superior Bow, which was not displayed correctly
Removed thrust damage factors from weapons that can't thrust
Fixed the description of the composite bow perk

Captain:
Fixed a bug that caused some vlandian Sergeant troops to spawn without shields or weapons
Increased troop counts of the sturgian Light Infantry, Skirmisher and Heavy Infantry

TDM + Siege:
The looter perk now only grants +10 gold per kill
Mounted Archer cost 250 -> 220

Duel:
Added a Duel Sword perk to heavy infantry classes, that grants a two handed sword
All money gain perks like looter or generous lord have been removed
Added new perks in their stead:
  • Looter -> Athletic, grants +7% movement speed
  • Generous Lord -> Tournament Master, grants a random heavy or long lance from any faction
  • Blood Money -> Bow and Arrows, grants a bow and arrows
Ooo nice excited to try out the Sargent axes
 

Errayn

Sergeant Knight
Added a Duel Sword perk to heavy infantry classes, that grants a two handed sword
Very nice thank you so much

Edit:
  • Generous Lord -> Tournament Master, grants a random heavy or long lance from any faction
I think there is no jousting lance weapon model in Bannerlord but maybe adding jousting lance model for that perk would be better ( maybe even making it couch only or another thing, bc that lance would be long (for balance etc) )

image.png
 
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Zarthas

Knight
Captain:
Fixed a bug that caused some vlandian Sergeant troops to spawn without shields or weapons
Increased troop counts of the sturgian Light Infantry, Skirmisher and Heavy Infantry
Excellent excellent excellent, I think that's going to obviate 90% of anyone's observed issues with Sturgia in Captain mode. Light infantry should be very viable with the troop boost and move boost, very excited to see how Brigands play with a little extra firepower. Should really do a lot for the faction's variety and strategy.
Great work man.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
So after playing a bit of Empire, I can't help but notice that the Recruit's actually kinda bad now... Like, "worse than Sturgia Warrior" bad. I think this is mainly due to the removal of the Pugio but I think a decent amount of players can agree with me that people who play him only succeed in wasting a player slot rather than actually be anything useful.

I still stand by my statement that peasant units, even if they're to be weaker than other light infantry options, should still be a strong enough pick to give late joiners an enjoyable experience. Otherwise, you'll have to bring back the Menavlion Infantry's stats from before February 2021 to compensate for the unit now having a "ragequit if you die as this unit" downside.
 
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