Balance of Power: Should There Be Another BoP hosted?

[Dodes]

So right now I'm leaning towards abandoning the idea of having a "cap limit" for the amount of games you can play as it doesn't seem to be a good compromise. I will however discourage players from joining if they are already in a BoP unless they are certain that they can keep up with both - yet at the same time I don't want to deny anyone that might be interested because I think this BoP I will host will be groundbreaking for taleworlds BoPs as it has an actual combat system rather than letting the GM or host choose the outcomes.

I'll leave this thread open, but I'm going to put up an application thread for my BoP just to see if anyone new or anyone who is left out wants to join a BoP, but the invitation is equally open to veterans as well. This conversation is still open and I will not actually host the BoP if enough stand against it, but it seems like it's 40/60 in favor of a new one.

I also think that if I crack down on "cloggers", those who take too long, then it should be much smoother for all hosts. I also think that while making new games has effects on other BoPs, they are only severe to start with and then alleviate, though an overall effect persists.

 

[Lord Burgess1]

So wait, you are just skipping all the people who are above you in the host list then?

 

[Dodes]

Frankly and to the point: Yes, for reasons I have said and some even agree with me on, some that are on the list as well.

 

[Lord Burgess1]

'I want to host now'

 

[Austupaio]

Pretty much what I'm reading into it as, as well.

Oh well, he's determined to do it. Can't really stop him.

I don't agree with it but it'd be a very trite thing to go ask a moderator to do anything about.

 

[Dodes]

Not only do "I want to host now" but I want to set a general pattern so those "who want to host now" can do so.

If this goes into total anarchy and everything implodes I'll take all the blame and vow to the order system.

Edit: If this is against any forum rules, I'll immediately desist.

 

[Austupaio]

I dunno, I mean on the one hand it is kind of rude but on the other hand... it's not really a big deal.

 

[Dodes]

I suppose there is some rudeness in it inherently, one of the reasons I've been polite as possible and have tried to do this democratically and civilly.

 

[MaHuD]

BoPs need strict deadlines, though they may be extended if at the last moment some major (public) diplomatic things are going on, it should generally be a hard deadline.
This will make sure that people hand it in on time, maybe not the first time but after being skipped they will make sure to hand it in. (except for the people who have just gone away/inactive/lost interest of course)

As for the host order, I feel that BoPs are a bit different from werewolf games which require a lot more attention in order to play good. In BoP you don't have to do diplomacy, though it does of course help.
Another reason why it's bad to have multiple werewolf games is because it is much harder to differentiate things that happened in the other game from your current game. Part of the whole wolf catching is patterns that you notice (perhaps subconsciously). These patterns won't be noticed as easily if you play with the same people in two or more games. Which gives you less to go on, which means you post less, have even less to go on... etc.

With BoPs however, it is much easier to keep track of things. One major bonus is that you have far less messages to read.
Though diplomacy can sometimes take a long time because you have to wait till someone responds and not everyone is in the same timezone

Another thing to consider is that if you limit the number of BoPs and all the current ones stay active, people will have to wait a very very long time until they can host...

In the end I feel that the BoPs that are active should setup more deadlines, and check the deadlines of the other games to make sure they don't fall on the same day. (A weekly deadline should be OK, though I am not sure given the timezones and diplomacy) In addition, I feel that people can host more BoPs but should accept that the current ones have priority and if it is causing a problem the new(er) BoPs should have longer deadlines (say twice as much) to lessen their influence upon the other BoPs.

 

[Catholic]

So, as it turns out jacking another person's spot in order to host a BoP with you and your buddies, selfishly demanding the entire hosting system be reworked just to support you taking over the next BoP spot, entirely proposing removing any limits on the number of BoP games that should be around just to be able to host a game....

... and then completely flopping turn 2.

Well done, *******.

I don't even ****ing care about the fact Dodes has real life issues or whatever. So do I. I'm not going to lie that my most recent turn took a month to process. But I called ALL of this:

"And it's a tad disappointing that most of the Yes's came from people that have a sad record of not exactly being consistent with running things. It is very, very easy to say, "Oh, I'm sure I'm mature enough to be active in both." It is much harder to actually be active in both, to participate in both games fully, to make sure the BoP game is not a "spend credits here" but a game with plotting, organization, creativity and serious thought."

"That's right, you had something in your life come up. That happens to everyone. And that's just looking at the best of the best - other people, frankly, just aren't mature period. Look at the most recent Werewolf game (Nipplemelter's). People just didn't play. The same happened in my Werewolf game. Everyone liked to make the commitment but then dropped.

And Werewolf runs for three months. BoP can go on for a year or so."

Did Dodes care?

No! Because his brilliant BoP ideas were good enough to warrant skipping an entire well-established list and standard of BoP hosting. I eventually stopped posting because I figured, "well, it's good to give people another shot." Or that maybe, his game will be worth it. I had no faith in that idea, and didn't join his game because I had **** all faith in his ability to host a game.

And I was completely, in every possible way, right.

 

[Temuzu]

隐藏

So, as it turns out jacking another person's spot in order to host a BoP with you and your buddies, selfishly demanding the entire hosting system be reworked just to support you taking over the next BoP spot, entirely proposing removing any limits on the number of BoP games that should be around just to be able to host a game....

... and then completely flopping turn 2.

Well done, *******.

I don't even ****ing care about the fact Dodes has real life issues or whatever. So do I. I'm not going to lie that my most recent turn took a month to process. But I called ALL of this:

"And it's a tad disappointing that most of the Yes's came from people that have a sad record of not exactly being consistent with running things. It is very, very easy to say, "Oh, I'm sure I'm mature enough to be active in both." It is much harder to actually be active in both, to participate in both games fully, to make sure the BoP game is not a "spend credits here" but a game with plotting, organization, creativity and serious thought."

"That's right, you had something in your life come up. That happens to everyone. And that's just looking at the best of the best - other people, frankly, just aren't mature period. Look at the most recent Werewolf game (Nipplemelter's). People just didn't play. The same happened in my Werewolf game. Everyone liked to make the commitment but then dropped.

And Werewolf runs for three months. BoP can go on for a year or so."

Did Dodes care?

No! Because his brilliant BoP ideas were good enough to warrant skipping an entire well-established list and standard of BoP hosting. I eventually stopped posting because I figured, "well, it's good to give people another shot." Or that maybe, his game will be worth it. I had no faith in that idea, and didn't join his game because I had **** all faith in his ability to host a game.

And I was completely, in every possible way, right.

Here we go.

 

[Leto]

Considering Dodes still hasn't even posted in the game's thread, I doubt you will get a response here. Really, the important part is to learn from our mistakes and try to move forward.

 

[Catholic]

Well, "I told you so" and all that.

 

[Vieira151]

Dodes seems to be having some trouble with making a post regarding his BoP for a couple of (personal) reasons. It's kinda strange, seeing how unimportant and inconsequential BoP is. 

 

[Whoopin]

Eternal is right, cause Whoopin said so.

 

[Lord Burgess1]

Dodes seems to be having some trouble with making a post regarding his BoP for a couple of (personal) reasons. It's kinda strange, seeing how unimportant and inconsequential BoP is. 

He's still coming on the forums everyday, it wouldn't take much to declare his interests rather than saying that he'll have them done tomorrow then never speaking about it again.

 

[Vieira151]

He has repeatedly mentioned on Skype it is dead and that he ****ed up. He just gets a tonne of anxiety and things about making a post in the thread itself. People have tried to get him to do it lots, but he doesn't seem to budge. He has mentally trapped himself from making a post.

 

[The Cow Dude]

I think there's a very fine line between your real life issues and Dodes' depression and anxiety. Regardless of how right you are it just seems like a **** move. I mean yeah, he should have just mentioned his intentions publicly, but cut the guy a break. It's hard to have any control over these sort of things.

Edit: Bah, I'm not going to go the trouble of quoting Eternal's post from my phone.

 

[Catholic]

I'm not giving him a break because his initial intentions were selfish and careless at best and malicious at worst. He shat on the system we had in place just to have his turn to host again and he just ended up failing miserably again.

Even if you go as far as to say that having to reorganize life entirely after one parent beats up another doesn't compare to Dodes' anxiety, Dodes' anxiety doesn't excuse the fact it was an ******* thing to do in the first place. If it had succeeded, and everything worked, then perhaps it would have excused his actions, but instead he just wasted everyone's time and hurt the other BoP games.

I don't care about whether or not he declared his game to be dead publicly or whether his overwhelming anxiety stops him from doing so. Because hey, why not, I don't have a major case of anxiety and so I can't hope to relate. But I do care about the fact that it happened in the first place.

And that's why I'm pointing it out. I'm not slandering Dodes. I'm not simply laughing at your little clique of friends who supported Dodes. As Puppy said here:

Really, the important part is to learn from our mistakes and try to move forward.

It's important to learn from our mistakes. It's not the first time Dodes has flopped on a project. Out of five BoPs on TW, he hosted and flopped two of them.

We have to learn that an unreliable and irresponsible individual demanding we skip the entire host order to let him host because he has a cool system and the backing of a lot of cool kids on Taleworlds shouldn't actually be given the rights to host. That's the lesson. We missed it the first time Dodes screwed up a BoP game, and by posting this I hope that I can drill it into your mentalities that this was a very, very bad idea and shouldn't happen again.

 

[Pixel]

I think there's a very fine line between your real life issues and Dodes' depression and anxiety. Regardless of how right you are it just seems like a **** move. I mean yeah, he should have just mentioned his intentions publicly, but cut the guy a break. It's hard to have any control over these sort of things.

Eternal, you can laugh at our clique of friends that supported Dodes in hosting it, but as someone who is bipolar I can sort of understand where Dodes is coming from. He requested a ban for over a month which actually worries me, because I have considered having my account deleted and etc. just because of a slightly embarrassing post or because I was ignored in a thread or whatever. Dodes' struggles are worse and much different than mine, my problems have basically been resolved and everything is okay, but Dodes has been and is experiencing a radical change in his life, and not too long ago (maybe a month and a 1/2?) had attempted suicide before he got his mind together and slept out in front of his therapist's office (if I remember the story correctly). He did this just before he expressed his desire to host the BoP. I hate to pull the emotional appeal card, but we get it, you were right, you told us so, and the BoP failed miserably. Move on now so that Dodes can move on, because he is a really great friend I would rather he feel welcome on the internet and, of course, alive.


EDIT: And I don't see why you're so concerned about us learning some kind of life lesson. It's a ****ing BoP.