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Balance and items suggestions

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Hofiko

Hey guys, I think an important thing to discuss about Deluge is balance. Some people complained for weapons nerfed too much, or others being too strong. What is your opinion? What needs changing?

Please, do not put new faction/game type suggestions here. This topic serves only for judging the quality of balance and items present in the module, and giving suggestions about it.


I'll start to encourage you. :razz:

I think the only thing to nerf are bows. Too fast weapon + horse is a pain in the... you know where. And basically that's the biggest mistake in the balance I've noticed so far.

Maybe cannons are too weak comparing to what they were in reality, but making them too lethal will ruin battles with small amount of people.
 

Fenix_120

Sergeant
I feel that Bows and all the throwing weapons need to be Nerfed, their high rate of fire may have historical grounds but they should be nerfed all the same to compensate for Muskets not having their shock value as they historically did or maybe even add the shock value? a volley makes you flee or something.

A minor historical gripe is that Swedish Pikemen need to be able to carry side swords or shorter faster broad swords as well as rapiers, both of these swords were very common in this era (despite what holly wood movies portray), the rapier was considered by many to be too long for combat and most Pikemen would have brought their own personal blades to combat ( and yes some but not all of them were rapiers)

armor needs to actually protect you from melee weapons and bows, a standard Swedish breastplate gives only 19 defense, Polish and Turkish mail even less.
The way the game is now everyone plays as a musketeer and no one wants to play as a Pikeman and I think beefing armor would help fix that.

But these are mere gripes, this is one of the best mods I have played hands down.
 

Phalanx300

Banned
Pikes should be changed to represent the 4,50m range. (And bottum pike removed) And I gues they should break through blocks unless the enemy uses a shield. As currently pikes can't block and thus are completely useless for melee.

And yes some weapons could have higher damage. Some sabres can kill in one hit while it takes rapiers three hits. Similar with pikes. So more accurate damage. And possibly increase the damage caused by bullets and increase loading time as well. Thats the reason Pikeman went along with musketmen, to protect them because it took so long to reload.
 
Phalanx300 said:
Pikes should be changed to represent the 4,50m range. (And bottum pike removed) And I gues they should break through blocks unless the enemy uses a shield. As currently pikes can't block and thus are completely useless for melee.

And yes some weapons could have higher damage. Some sabres can kill in one hit while it takes rapiers three hits. Similar with pikes. So more accurate damage. And possibly increase the damage caused by bullets and increase loading time as well. Thats the reason Pikeman went along with musketmen, to protect them because it took so long to reload.

Can you realistically see yourself blocking a melee swing with a pike:razz: Let me know how you work those angles out...

 

Phalanx300

Banned
Well the ingame pikes for Cossairs which aren't really that much longer can block. But I'm not asking for them to block, just for them to usefull in melee. They weren't only used to deter cavalry but also in melee. And just try blocking a pike or multiple pikes (or even spears for that matter) when your not having a shield.
 

Phalanx300

Banned
Did I miss a new MM update with spears crushing through blocks? :/

I'm simply talking realism here. Took a long time to reload, more so then the muskets from Napoleon era as it had more actions to be performed. And bullets really had a lot of stopping power back then because they weren't made to pierce like current bullets are. It crushes.
 

Dante.

Reverse Fake ID
Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
Phalanx300 said:
Did I miss a new MM update with spears crushing through blocks? :/

I'm simply talking realism here. Took a long time to reload, more so then the muskets from Napoleon era as it had more actions to be performed. And bullets really had a lot of stopping power back then because they weren't made to pierce like current bullets are. It crushes.

True actually.
 

Deithwen

Veteran
WB
Well, I have already said that sabres and rapiers/cutlasses need to be remade, maybe even just the way they were, I mean, back in 0.3 sabres were too fast so people could just spam with them qant it was very effective. In 0.4 blades were fine, so you could show your skills in battle or a duel, but now the blades are too unbalanced. Sabres are short as hell and weak either, rapiers are quite useless and cossacks have that huge cutlass I can't even imagine where could they get it.

About firearms, well, i can see the point in making them less accurate, but reducing the damage makes no sense, one bullet from 17th century almost always would kill you or at least make you a cripple.

All that makes bows and throwing weapons too strong, they destroy what's left of balance of the mod.

I hope fixes are going to come soon, because it would be a shame if such a great work will be discredited by those issues
 

MrExpendable

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&S
Phalanx300 said:
Did I miss a new MM update with spears crushing through blocks? :/

I'm simply talking realism here. Took a long time to reload, more so then the muskets from Napoleon era as it had more actions to be performed. And bullets really had a lot of stopping power back then because they weren't made to pierce like current bullets are. It crushes.
I agree and want to add on the last bit about bullets. They could be tweaked to inflict only minor injury to plate-armoured characters at a certain distance, to represent this.
 

Dante.

Reverse Fake ID
Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
MrExpendable said:
Phalanx300 said:
Did I miss a new MM update with spears crushing through blocks? :/

I'm simply talking realism here. Took a long time to reload, more so then the muskets from Napoleon era as it had more actions to be performed. And bullets really had a lot of stopping power back then because they weren't made to pierce like current bullets are. It crushes.
I agree and want to add on the last bit about bullets. They could be tweaked to inflict only minor injury to plate-armoured characters at a certain distance, to represent this.

I'm almost certain that a distance-related damage feature for certain armours could be implemented. And yes, because they are not meant to pierce, but deliver blunt damage, plate at a distance may have some good stopping power against a musket ball, much like a modern bullet-proof vest.
 

matmannen

Squire
WBNW
Phalanx300 said:
And yes some weapons could have higher damage. Some sabres can kill in one hit while it takes rapiers three hits. Similar with pikes. So more accurate damage. And possibly increase the damage caused by bullets and increase loading time as well. Thats the reason Pikeman went along with musketmen, to protect them because it took so long to reload.

The sabre is a cutting weapon and a rapier is a stabbing weapon. The repier have a higher stabbing attack then slaching.

I usually use first cut then stab usually kills them in two hits.  :grin:
 

Dante.

Reverse Fake ID
Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
matmannen said:
Phalanx300 said:
And yes some weapons could have higher damage. Some sabres can kill in one hit while it takes rapiers three hits. Similar with pikes. So more accurate damage. And possibly increase the damage caused by bullets and increase loading time as well. Thats the reason Pikeman went along with musketmen, to protect them because it took so long to reload.

The sabre is a cutting weapon and a rapier is a stabbing weapon. The repier have a higher stabbing attack then slaching.

I usually use first cut then stab usually kills them in two hits.  :grin:

Yes I think there is one rapier that does 44p! That is extremely high! But it has no slash atall.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
Hugues said:
Yes I think there is one rapier that does 44p! That is extremely high! But it has no slash atall.
I guess you're talking about koncerz (estoc). It can't be called a rapier, since you can only thrust with it. (it's a cavalry weapon)
 
There is too great variation of speed between swords. Some are 106 and the slowest can be even 86, which is the same speed as the heaviest hammers in native have.
 

Fenix_120

Sergeant
Danik Golovanov said:
There is too great variation of speed between swords. Some are 106 and the slowest can be even 86, which is the same speed as the heaviest hammers in native have.

+1
 

matmannen

Squire
WBNW
Fenix_120 said:
Danik Golovanov said:
There is too great variation of speed between swords. Some are 106 and the slowest can be even 86, which is the same speed as the heaviest hammers in native have.

+1

I would just like to put out a warning out there for making swords to fast. When swords are to fast you can beraly see the direction it is swung, so you can block it. And also because of the ping diffrence between players having it to fast will also make some players, who block the correct direction but still ping is to high for the server to respond in time. Just some thoughts =)
 
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