Siege Ayzar Stronghold

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I don't have a problem with cav in "Phase 1" of a siege match (A/B flags), with things such as defender cav making sorties against the attackers or attacker cav capping the preliminary flags in advance of their infantry.

That said, I think cav should have diminishing returns as the match goes on. Nothing is worse than when the "Final Phase" of a siege match (i.e. the fight for G flag) becomes a veritable cav stomping grounds, with scores of cav on both sides trampling the area flat. At that point, it's not about a desperate intense inf fight for the final flag, just simply whichever team spawns as more cav.

This can be achieved by raising the price for cav exponentially as each flag is captured, or simply a net increase in cav price for siege mode.
Additionally, choke points, stairs, elevation changes, and a smaller square area around important flags also encourages less cav spam.

I also noticed that many times players will go cav simply because they are tired of running long distances before finally joining the fight. This is especially true for the new maps (Ayzar Stronghold and Domogtul Castle), where some of the mid-match spawns place the attackers really far away (>30 seconds) from the nearest point of contention.
 
I honestly dont think we will have a sapper class or something alike, sorry.
This can be achieved by raising the price for cav exponentially as each flag is captured, or simply a net increase in cav price for siege mode.
Additionally, choke points, stairs, elevation changes, and a smaller square area around important flags also encourages less cav spam.

I also noticed that many times players will go cav simply because they are tired of running long distances before finally joining the fight. This is especially true for the new maps (Ayzar Stronghold and Domogtul Castle), where some of the mid-match spawns place the attackers really far away (>30 seconds) from the nearest point of contention.
Yeah thats exaclty what I tried to say with my other posts. I agree, thats why I made the spawns closer. Although in Ayzar Stronghold for the last flag they are already extremely close.
 
That was to be expected to be honest. Still, I think it could be a decent idea to incorporate the spikes directly into the map.
 
I'm not sure if this is directly map-related or to do with the gamemode itself, but we had a strange crash on this map a few days ago where it crashed everyone in the game to desktop. Anyone who tried to join afterwards would immediately crash too. It fixed itself up after a while, possibly after a map change.
 
Finally was abble to appreciate a whole game without crash on this map.

The early part is annoying as hell, cavalry everywhere. Middle and last part of the siege process is glorious though, the inside of the castle is well designed to favor massive infantry battle, the last big battle around the stairs to the last flag is probably one of the greatest siege experience in Bannerlord so far = Cavalry are unable to annoy us and archers have a very limited window for shooting into infantry from safe distance, so they end up shooting at each other from the top of the walls, which is very good design. I played archer a bit and i had fun shooting at other archers, it was fun to fight other archers in a relatively close quarter zone.

I have no comment about cav's fun times, they have no business in siege. They ruin sieges in every map. This map could become one of my favorite because it seems designed to boycot cavalry the best it can. Mid stage to end stage it felt like there was nobody playing cavalry anymore, which is how siege should be at all time.

Final verdict : good job, i like this map.
 
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Finally was abble to appreciate a whole game without crash on this map.

The early part is annoying as hell, cavalry everywhere. Middle and last part of the siege process is glorious though, the inside of the castle is well designed to favor massive infantry battle, the last big battle around the stairs to the last flag is probably one of the greatest siege experience in Bannerlord so far = Cavalry are unable to annoy us and archers have a very limited window for shooting into infantry from safe distance, so they end up shooting at each other from the top of the walls, which is very good design. I played archer a bit and i had fun shooting at other archers, it was fun to fight other archers in a relatively close quarter zone.

Final verdict : good job, i like this map.
The last three flags of this map are just epic. I love how you have units just jumping off from the walls into the fray at E, and the vineyard type area at F just looks really cool. The whole area is easy to defend from cavalry too, which makes it an all-round fun fight.

Unfortunately I don't think I've lasted a whole round to be able to fight at G, but looking forward to that. This is probably my favourite Siege map at the moment and it's polish and design seems on another level compared to the other Siege maps.
 
I don't have a problem with cav in "Phase 1" of a siege match (A/B flags), with things such as defender cav making sorties against the attackers or attacker cav capping the preliminary flags in advance of their infantry.

That said, I think cav should have diminishing returns as the match goes on. Nothing is worse than when the "Final Phase" of a siege match (i.e. the fight for G flag) becomes a veritable cav stomping grounds, with scores of cav on both sides trampling the area flat. At that point, it's not about a desperate intense inf fight for the final flag, just simply whichever team spawns as more cav.

This can be achieved by raising the price for cav exponentially as each flag is captured, or simply a net increase in cav price for siege mode.
Additionally, choke points, stairs, elevation changes, and a smaller square area around important flags also encourages less cav spam.


I also noticed that many times players will go cav simply because they are tired of running long distances before finally joining the fight. This is especially true for the new maps (Ayzar Stronghold and Domogtul Castle), where some of the mid-match spawns place the attackers really far away (>30 seconds) from the nearest point of contention.

This is a very good suggestion.
 
Finally was abble to appreciate a whole game without crash on this map.

The early part is annoying as hell, cavalry everywhere. Middle and last part of the siege process is glorious though, the inside of the castle is well designed to favor massive infantry battle, the last big battle around the stairs to the last flag is probably one of the greatest siege experience in Bannerlord so far = Cavalry are unable to annoy us and archers have a very limited window for shooting into infantry from safe distance, so they end up shooting at each other from the top of the walls, which is very good design. I played archer a bit and i had fun shooting at other archers, it was fun to fight other archers in a relatively close quarter zone.

I have no comment about cav's fun times, they have no business in siege. They ruin sieges in every map. This map could become one of my favorite because it seems designed to boycot cavalry the best it can. Mid stage to end stage it felt like there was nobody playing cavalry anymore, which is how siege should be at all time.

Final verdict : good job, i like this map.
We will raise the price for cavalry with a coming update for TDM and Siege. Also I added some anti cav chokepoints and moved the spawns closer so inf doesnt need to run as far (see above, currently only in the beta 1.5.10).

Ill hope that will help. Glad you like the map otherwise :smile:
 
Yea gotta agree, the more i play this map the more i like it, i even find this map sometimes much better then original ones
I like amount of "hidden" features on this map, like this backtower over defender spawn, where you can stealth-spray defender spawn with arrows, also a tea-sofa places are cozy af
Good job! The only think that really frustrates is the lack of choke-points between D/C/A point and E/F/G, its just a long hallway which would be nice to see as a team pushing place, but i almost never see any fight here, because spawns are way too far
 
I mean cav charging out is gonna be a problem on any siege map. Unless you trap them inside or make the attacker approaches super narrow, both I think arent great solutions.

I do think as the round goes on, cav should get a lot less viable. With putting flags up on towers and adding new chokepoints I am hoping too help that. Also moving the spawns closer so there is less running for inf. You can actually see how few kills cav gets at the later stages of the rounds on this map. But people still choose them cause they dont want to walk that far.

Still price increases will definetly help yes.
You do know that both staircases been added to E and F path can be jumped over and are not an obstacle to cav players, right?

My tactics for this map is getting in the back, destroy catapult on the wall, then break all possible walls surrounding E, gates to G and ballistas. You don't even need to backcap when enemy archers have no cover to defend those points. All that can be done without any chance of meeting an enemy and it feels wrong. 1 or 2 guys prepare the route, then snowballing is inevitable. I try doing the same on Skala and it's 50-50 chance for me to get busted, it's much more visible to the def team that someone is making a mess in their backs.
 
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You do know that both staircases been added to E and F path can be jumped over and are not an obstacle to cav players, right?

+1

It really does seem like the only solution to fix cav spam in siege is a huge increase in gold cost, a class limit, or make it so cav can't ascend stairs (not realistic, but it would help game balance).
 
E gate should be removed, I've never seen it actually hold off attackers and usually it just blocks defenders trying to get in to take back E and F which have been captured by a cav
 
When G is the only flag left, the spawns may have to be adjusted slightly.

The defenders spawn much closer to G than the attackers -sometimes only a few steps away from the flag, making the final fight rather unbalanced. I've seen numerous matches where the attackers will steamroll all the way to G only to get absolutely stuffed because of the spawns.

Moving the attacker spawns closer to G (perhaps closer to F flag) or conversely moving the defender spawns further back (maybe more toward the tower in the back) could help balance out the issue.
 
When G is the only flag left, the spawns may have to be adjusted slightly.

The defenders spawn much closer to G than the attackers -sometimes only a few steps away from the flag, making the final fight rather unbalanced. I've seen numerous matches where the attackers will steamroll all the way to G only to get absolutely stuffed because of the spawns.

Moving the attacker spawns closer to G (perhaps closer to F flag) or conversely moving the defender spawns further back (maybe more toward the tower in the back) could help balance out the issue.
+1
 
Got stuck in the little house thingy on F, could just walk through the wall (just like some other guys do in the video) and not get out.
Also my sound has been messed up for a while, that doesn't have to do with the map ofcourse but maybe some other people have the same issue. Changing sound channels doesn't help unfortunately

 
As a defender I was not able to climb the staircase (the last step) in the gatehouse across A. From the perspective of the defenders, the right wooden staircase. No screenshot, sorry.
 
Hey everyone!

Sorry for the silence, I was following the thread and made some changes now that will be coming with the next few updates (probably not all together).

First of all I am not putting in any more big anti-cav barriers, since the price changes for cav will hopefully be coming soon and should hit them hard enough. I did however spend a lot of time adjusting the spawns for the keep flag. Moving more of the defender spawns forward and many of the attacker-spawns further to the back of their spawning plato.

B7i6F.png

New further back defender spawn (not the only defender spawn)

As a defender I was not able to climb the staircase (the last step) in the gatehouse across A. From the perspective of the defenders, the right wooden staircase. No screenshot, sorry.
This is also fixed

The Ballista positions have also been adjusted around the map. There were a few that could overlook flags or shoot into spawns and since they will become more powerful in a future update I adjusted them in preparation. Also I went over the lighting a bit more and fixed some dark corners, made some slight cover adjustments and added a few new details.

fIoLi.png

quite literally here

oj14b.png

new ballista position
 
Got stuck in the little house thingy on F, could just walk through the wall (just like some other guys do in the video) and not get out.
Also my sound has been messed up for a while, that doesn't have to do with the map ofcourse but maybe some other people have the same issue. Changing sound channels doesn't help unfortunately


I looked at this one too. It doesnt happen to me on the development version anymore, so its probably fixed globally (that fountain is used in other scenes aswell). I suspect its gonna be fixed with the next update or the one after that!
 
I looked at this one too. It doesnt happen to me on the development version anymore, so its probably fixed globally (that fountain is used in other scenes aswell). I suspect its gonna be fixed with the next update or the one after that!
Thanks, maybe the update I'm downloading right now has the fix! Yesterday it still happened to some poor souls

Also I want to ask, is it better to post stuff like this in this thread, or should this thread be saved for gameplay issues only (like spawnpoints, barriers etc)? Because I see another thread under this ( in the Similar Threads bit) in the 'Map Related Issues' about stairs in the gatehouse between flags A and C and there is no answer in that thread that the issue is noted
 
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