Auto-block in singleplayer

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imgran

Squire
kk, np. I actually do not think there's a difference in WB and BL in blocking and as said I do get my fair share of swings in my face. It's surely still reliant on some reflexes, but for me it's mostly a mindset thing. If I go into a battle reminding myself that the enemy has a sword too, I mostly remember to track their swing animation and can reasonably well block. If I don't then yea, also a peasant can do damage.
As you get older the frame rate of your eyes actually drops. The pathways get more inefficient so it takes more time for your eyes to talk to your brain, and you eyes just aren't as sharp as they were anyway.

By middle age you actually lose the ability to track moving objects at anywhere near the level you can in your early 20s as a result. This is one of the many reasons that football and baseball are young man's sports.

So you can block a little. Great! I'm seriously glad you can. Meanwhile I've got old man eyes and I can't even see the attack coming before it's already hit me. An when I do see it I can't tell in a split second if it's an overhand chop or a right side chop because the animations are similar and I can't pick up on the difference in time.

If I worked on it I might be able to anticipate a little better but my bottom line is the same as many pro auto blockers. I didn't come to this game to be a master swordsman. I came to this game as an open world RPG with first person combat elements. Not having autoblock closes a lot of playstyles for me that would be open in Warband and I don't like it because there's literally no reason for it.

Autoblock in multiplayer where it shouldn't be using a trainer to activate the autoblock code was super common in warband. Good riddance.
And autoblock will still be hacked into multiplayer whether it's in singleplayer or not.

I guarantee you the code for autoblock is already somewhere in bannerlord's code, commented out. it would take a couple hours of decommenting and a few hours of testing and the hack will be live for anyone who wants it.

Even without that, it's not going to take very long for some script kiddie to cobble together a hack mod.

In other words there is literally no point to banning autoblock in single player. It won't even solve the problem you want it to solve.
 
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DEM1L1CH

Recruit
Let's say the best player can manage to block 90% of attacks using manual block with a 2h and 99% with a shield. Let's say most experienced players can manage 60-70% with 2h and 90% with a shield. Since 2h has lower defense, it should be suitably stronger offensively to compensate.

Now let's say autoblock blocks 100%. Why would you ever use a shield in melee? It ceases to be a true viable option. Now all players are affected because they're just handicapping themselves if they use a 1h weapon in melee. That's the issue. Something's gotta give.

Well personally, when I got to the last match in a Tournament and got my shield splintered with an axe, I was quite happy to just be able to time the block input appropriately with my enemy's attack timing, instead of suddenly needing to match direction as well as timing. It's a definite quality of life upgrade to have autoblock. And let's not kid ourselves, most of the "blocking" people are doing without autoblock enabled is simple avoidance or preemptive attack. I don't think most people really try to "block every single incoming attack", though I'm sure there are some people in MP that can do that perfectly, it is rather difficult to match not only the direction of an enemies attack as well as the appropriate timing within a fraction of a second, and that's just 1 v 1. I think we can all agree that as awesome as it is to become good enough to be a melee god and never get scratched even while armed with just a knife, it really just makes sense to bring back autoblock. I think what meager stat changes you allege them to possibly bring about because of autoblock would be an alright sacrifice for you to make considering you made the sacrifice already in Warband.
 
Let's say the best player can manage to block 90% of attacks using manual block with a 2h and 99% with a shield. Let's say most experienced players can manage 60-70% with 2h and 90% with a shield. Since 2h has lower defense, it should be suitably stronger offensively to compensate.

Now let's say autoblock blocks 100% and the game and metagame are balanced around that. Why would you ever use a shield in melee? It ceases to be a true viable option. Now all players (in both SP and MP) are affected because they're just handicapping themselves if they use a 1h weapon in melee. That's the issue. Something's gotta give.
Arrows. More than one opponent. Autoblock don't do **** against either. Shields do. Shields are still a lot better than weapon blocking even with autoblock enabled.
 

DEM1L1CH

Recruit
Now all players (in both SP and MP)
I would also appreciate further clarification here, how autoblock for SP would affect MP, maybe I'm just dense?

You can choose a shield in MP because it's easier to block with than no shield. Autoblock would only ever be enabled for SP, and even then your shield can be broken and you will have to time your blocks perfectly WITH autoblock enabled, it's still very possible to get murdered with autoblock enabled especially if it's 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 and any of them have a bow or 2 are attacking at different times
 

Smug Jug

Recruit
While i agree that an auto-directional block should be added for the more casual players, as someone who's coming to Bannerlord as not only a Warband but also a Mordhau veteran I strongly encourage anyone who relies on things like auto-block to "get gud" (and no, im not being condescending).

I noticed VERY quickly that when I would replay Warband after my time spent in Mordhau that directional blocks were quite literally a breeze. Learning to read the different animations was a bit of a chore given how clunky we all know Warband is, but once I learned to read said clunky animations, I performed way better than I ever had before.

Another thing that Mordhau had also taught me which translated to Warband/Bannerlord pretty well was the fact that, while games are indeed a fun and casual pass time that we use to wind down, sometimes we still need to take it a bit seriously and push ourselves to do better.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.
 

durbal

Sergeant
Arrows. More than one opponent. Autoblock don't do **** against either.

Not that it matters since 2h would still be at a disadvantage in many circumstances, but I'd argue that autoblock would actually be way better versus multiple opponents as long as you keep them in front of you (which you should be doing anyway).
 

DEM1L1CH

Recruit
Not that it matters since 2h would still be at a disadvantage in many circumstances, but I'd argue that autoblock would actually be way better versus multiple opponents as long as you keep them in front of you (which you should be doing anyway).
Well good at least we are in agreement that Autoblock should be a feature in Mount & Blade 2: Bannerlord 😉
 
According to some poster on the steam forums they contacted the support team and got this response:



Hopefully it's true and we'll hear something official soon.
Hi. I posted that to Steam. It originated here. I was not actually the one that emailed support.

You can find the original post here.

I agree that it is hard to verify, but I have no reason to suspect that the user who posted it was lying. Personally I am refraining from repurchasing the game until some kind of official announcement is made.

I also made a suggestion thread asking for them to explain the feature's current absence and whether it is going to get added back.

You can find that here.

Please do not discuss the merits of adding back autoblock or keeping it removed on that suggestion thread. That is simply to request an explanation only so that we can have a fully informed discussion. That we haven't heard anything official on this is still extremely disappointing. We shouldn't have to get this info from a copy+paste of a support ticket submitted by a user.
 
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Not that it matters since 2h would still be at a disadvantage in many circumstances, but I'd argue that autoblock would actually be way better versus multiple opponents as long as you keep them in front of you (which you should be doing anyway).
It is definitely easier than being stuck with a two hander on manual block, that's for sure.

However, blocking against two opponents with a two hander using auto block is harder than blocking two opponents using a shield on manual. So still quite balanced in my opinion and simply serves to open up a variety of playstyles that basically become ridiculously impractical without it.
 

durbal

Sergeant
I would also appreciate further clarification here, how autoblock for SP would affect MP, maybe I'm just dense?

You can choose a shield in MP because it's easier to block with than no shield. Autoblock would only ever be enabled for SP, and even then your shield can be broken and you will have to time your blocks perfectly WITH autoblock enabled, it's still very possible to get murdered with autoblock enabled especially if it's 1v2, 1v3, 1v4 and any of them have a bow or 2 are attacking at different times

I am not talking about SP or MP specifically. None of what I'm saying pertains to any game mode. The only thing I'm saying is that the autoblock-enabled metagame and balance shift compared to the one without autoblock. As I said, something's gotta give since there is presumably only one set of weapon stats yet two forms of effectiveness based on the chosen blocking options because the same weapon/build/composition have a different effectiveness based on the blocking option chosen.

I agree that the controls for blocking can be better. It's awkward to use because in either form (keyboard or mouse) because both are already tied to basic inputs. There can be improvement made there even by just allowing a change in block direction while the block button is held down (I'm actually not sure why that isn't how it works now). That said, I don't like the idea of just saying 'screw it, here's autoblock' because the system can be built on to make melee more enjoyable overall and if blocking is always as simple as a right click then the game is limiting its own potential.
 

DEM1L1CH

Recruit
I am not talking about SP or MP specifically. None of what I'm saying pertains to any game mode. The only thing I'm saying is that the autoblock-enabled metagame and balance shift compared to the one without autoblock. As I said, something's gotta give since there is presumably only one set of weapon stats yet two forms of effectiveness based on the chosen blocking options because the same weapon/build/composition have a different effectiveness based on the blocking option chosen.

I agree that the controls for blocking can be better. It's awkward to use because in either form (keyboard or mouse) because both are already tied to basic inputs. There can be improvement made there even by just allowing a change in block direction while the block button is held down (I'm actually not sure why that isn't how it works now). That said, I don't like the idea of just saying 'screw it, here's autoblock' because the system can be built on to make melee more enjoyable overall and if blocking is always as simple as a right click then the game is limiting its own potential.

IIRC that's how Kingdom Come did their melee blocking, you could change it on the fly. "Locking in" your block direction doesn't feel right and isn't how people would react IRL. IRL your adrenaline would have your reflexes sharp and paying close attention to where the attack was coming from and whatever you did to deflect the attack would happen subconsciously. They are expecting that level of reaction with stiff controls
 
Also there's a reason that 90% of Multiplayer players either loaded themselves up with shields and a scimitar (easiest block, fast attack speed) or ran around naked with a voulge, so that they could splinter shields while outrunning/kiting people.

Let's not kid ourselves here. Lots of people participated in multiplayer manual block by learning how to circumvent it.

When manual block did come into play between two HUMAN opponents in multiplayer, it was a beautiful thing, but it rarely happened. And in single player it was, is, and always has been total ****.
 

sleepy dragon

Rebel without a clue
Count
WBWF&SNWVCM&B
Also there's a reason that 90% of Multiplayer players either loaded themselves up with shields and a scimitar (easiest block, fast attack speed) or ran around naked with a voulge, so that they could splinter shields while outrunning/kiting people.

Let's not kid ourselves here. Lots of people participated in multiplayer manual block by learning how to circumvent it.

When manual block did come into play between two HUMAN opponents in multiplayer, it was a beautiful thing, but it rarely happened. And in single player it was, is, and always has been total ****.
If you watch competitive matches you can see a lot of people manual blocking! Sadly a lot of players on public servers lacked the will to master the art.
 
If you watch competitive matches you can see a lot of people manual blocking! Sadly a lot of players on public servers lacked the will to master the art.
Agreed.

I quite liked doing it in multiplayer, but more often than not ended up going up against the three shields per person brigade. In any case, there's no harm in letting me and others continue using auto in single player where I never found the manual mechanic fun.
 

imgran

Squire
And if you're concerned that auto blocking will open the door for auto blocking hacks in Bannerlord MP, don't be. no matter what is done with the blocking system in single player, autoblocking will sneak into multiplayer. It's not gonna take hackers long to attack this blocking system, especially with so many people aggravated over the lack of auto block. Someone is going to have the ability to find where the feature is commented out and bring it back sooner or later.
 

monoolho

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The only thing I'm saying is that the autoblock-enabled metagame and balance shift compared to the one without autoblock. As I said, something's gotta give since there is presumably only one set of weapon stats yet two forms of effectiveness based on the chosen blocking options because the same weapon/build/composition have a different effectiveness based on the blocking option chosen.

That said, I don't like the idea of just saying 'screw it, here's autoblock' because the system can be built on to make melee more enjoyable overall and if blocking is always as simple as a right click then the game is limiting its own potential.
What you are embarking on, logically is the Slippery slope fallacy (link added as someone, I believe it was imgran, has done before). You believe and defend not having an autoblock feature, despite constant request and the accessibility opportunities it has, just because MAYBE, WHO KNOWS, TW might "nerf something because autoblock makes the game 'easier'"? That's precisely the tradeoff with autoblock: it makes blocking easier, It's not a balancing feature, it's not made to cater to lazy people, while still maintaining the challenge of the game.

It's like placing a goddamn escalator BESIDE a staircase on the subway entrance/exit. "Oh, you're a weak person because you take the escalator instead of just going over the stairs". And you're defending not placing anymore escalators because "maybe the gorvernment will feel it makes people too lazy to walk and go up flights of stairs, so we are removing and prohibiting all forms of escalators on the country, so people get better at going up stairs."

That's your argument, I reckon. And I stand against it, for all of those who want to have the freedom to choose between walking up stairs whenever they want, or just pressing a single button on the mouse to defend from incoming attacks whenever they want, instead of being forced to have "adrenaline pumps" while sitting in a chair in front of the computer at 4:43 in the morning.

EDIT: quoted the wrong thing, my brain is tired
 
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sleepy dragon

Rebel without a clue
Count
WBWF&SNWVCM&B
I'll be serious for the first time in this thread. Realistically, Taleworlds is planning on having autoblock for SP but is possibly still being worked on due to the combat changes.
 
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