Auto-block in singleplayer

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durbal

Sergeant
Why would it suck? Are you forced to enable auto-block?

Why do so many people care at all how others play a single player game? I literally can't understand this.

I said it would suck if the game were balanced around autoblock, the reason being that two-handers would be underpowered with manual block. Did you even read my post or did your knee just jerk as soon as it could?
 

rwhit85

Recruit
I said it would suck if the game were balanced around autoblock, the reason being that two-handers would be underpowered with manual block. Did you even read my post or did your knee just jerk as soon as it could?

How would this impact anybody who chooses not to use autoblock?
 

rwhit85

Recruit
Frankly I'm not sure what "balanced around autoblocking" actually means.

On the one hand, you have people saying "It's easy to block everything you just have to learn noobs"

And on the other hand, you have people saying "Game is balanced so blocking everything would be overpowered"

I don't get it
 

DEM1L1CH

Recruit
Frankly I'm not sure what "balanced around autoblocking" actually means.

It's literally just having the game select the direction you block automatically, you still have to time your block correctly. That's literally all it is. What does balancing of stats have to do with that.
 

monoolho

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
On the one hand, you have people saying "It's easy to block everything you just have to learn noobs"
And on the other hand, you have people saying "Game is balanced so blocking everything would be overpowered"
I don't get it
Inconsistency, indeed. Because what people are worried about is that their experience will be affected because others will have the "easy go of auto-something". Honestly, it seems like people trying to control others and impose their particular tastes and opinions onto them.

Like the degeneracy of saying barbecue sauce and mayonnaise is edible. We all know the one true sauce is margerine, nothing else beats it.
 

Landstrider

Recruit
It's literally just having the game select the direction you block automatically, you still have to time your block correctly. That's literally all it is. What does balancing of stats have to do with that.
It doesn't have anything to do with anything, Warband didn't have balancing issues due to auto-blocking lol.
Really at this point it really seems a lot of people are actually making up reasons just to stick to being contrarian in their opposition against an auto-block.
 

durbal

Sergeant
It's literally just having the game select the direction you block automatically, you still have to time your block correctly. That's literally all it is. What does balancing of stats have to do with that.

Because if autoblock or manual block are more or less efficient compared to each other and weapon stats stay the same then simple math says that in one blocking form the weapon will be better than the other.

Basically, imagine TW balance 2h to do amazing damage because users are more vulnerable in melee with manual block. Then with autoblock they become just better overall since you don't have that extra vulnerability.
 

DEM1L1CH

Recruit
Inconsistency, indeed. Because what people are worried about is that their experience will be affected because others will have the "easy go of auto-something". Honestly, it seems like people trying to control others and impose their particular tastes and opinions onto them.

Like the degeneracy of saying barbecue sauce and mayonnaise is edible. We all know the one true sauce is sodium glucamate, nothing else beats it.

Mayostard/Mustardayonnaise/Mustmayostardayonnaise are the condiment lover's condiment

hqdefault.jpg


*Warning - Mayostard will expire before Mustardayonnaise
 

durbal

Sergeant
It's worth pointing out that the argument that 'ITS ONLY SP SO WHY SHOULD YOU CARE' doesn't always hold up when design decisions start being made based on the metagame or popular opinion. The reason is that it presupposes that people actually know what they'd enjoy more which isn't always -- and sometimes is very rarely -- the case. 'People don't know what they're missing' and all that.

It also cuts off future design avenues. Imagine for example that TW wanted to expand on the melee combat system in some form and make it more fluid and overall more skill-based and enjoyable, but autoblock just made it redundant.
 

DEM1L1CH

Recruit
then simple math says that in one blocking form the weapon will be better than the other.

Care to share an example of this simple math?


it presupposes that people actually know what they'd enjoy more which isn't always the case.

Ah, so you have a better idea of what people would enjoy than they themselves do. I see?


autoblock just made it redundant.

I still don't understand how someone on the other side of the planet playing singleplayer with autoblock enabled makes anything redundant for you. They can make the combat as complex and sky-high skill ceiling as they want, and you can enjoy that experience, but autoblock does not effect you at all.

Multiplayer wouldn't use Autoblock

Singleplayer autoblock only pertains to the player themselves

There would be no difference between Autoblock or Manual block with regards to weapon balancing. That doesn't make sense.
 

monoolho

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Mayostard/Mustardayonnaise/Mustmayostardayonnaise are the condiment lover's condiment

hqdefault.jpg


*Warning - Mayostard will expire before Mustardayonnaise
WHAT IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY IS THAT

It's worth pointing out that the argument that 'ITS ONLY SP SO WHY SHOULD YOU CARE' doesn't always hold up when design decisions start being made based on the metagame or popular opinion. The reason is that it presupposes that people actually know what they'd enjoy more which isn't always the case. It also cuts off future design avenues. Imagine for example that TW wanted to expand on the melee combat system in some form and make it more fluid and overall more skill-based and enjoyable, but autoblock just made it redundant.
No it doesn't. They can still do whatever they want. All they need to do is place a tooltip on the autoblock feature, and a quick tip on the menu, saying "the new X mechanic is better played with autoblock shield and autoblock weapons disabled, try it out!".

Freedom to choose: player chooses if they want to opt in or not, the devs can still do whatever they want, giving users freedom, also gives devs freedom. It may sound less rewarding spending money and resources on a "new feature" that "only a handful might use", but if it is a feature, it is a feature nonetheless, all they have to do is advertise it. Don't like it? Don't use it. Are curious, or DO WANT? Use it.

That's the beauty of the ON/OFF system.

Speculatively, though, they did spend the better part of a decade tuning their combat system for this, so I doubt they would made any major changes now.


The reason is that it presupposes that people actually know what they'd enjoy more which isn't always the case. It also cuts off future design avenues.
So, the basic argument here is:
The game is more fun for me because I can learn something new [blocking] and it feels satisfactory blocking manually. Try it for yourself and you'll have as much fun as me.
STOP THIS MADNESS!
Now you want to force them to keep their reflexes up, just because
you think having good reflexes for a virtual game is more fun? Maybe we should stop comparing personal opinions here, and thinking on the bigger picture, something like the collective good, like the choice to have it ON or OFF?
I'm starting to get pissed about this.
 

durbal

Sergeant
Ah, so you have a better idea of what people would enjoy than they themselves do. I see?

No, but that doesn't mean they do. See: online dating or kids eating broccoli just to demonstrate the concept. People often don't know what they're missing out on because they aren't looking at such things.

I still don't understand how someone on the other side of the planet playing singleplayer with autoblock enabled makes anything redundant for you. They can make the combat as complex and sky-high skill ceiling as they want, and you can enjoy that experience, but autoblock does not effect you at all.

There would be no difference between Autoblock or Manual block with regards to weapon balancing. That doesn't make sense.

Of course it affects me. When I'm playing with a 2h and in the patch notes they nerf 2h across the board because they're overly effective due to autoblock then the balance of the game and the metagame shifts because now the game is balanced around autoblock. This has nothing to do with SP or MP -- it has to do with AI unit compositions, viable build paths (aka real choice), ranged vs. melee balance and everything else.
 

DEM1L1CH

Recruit
they nerf 2h across the board because they're overly effective due to autoblock

Why would the devs implement a weapon nerf to benefit NPC enemies ability to block in single player? Or are you claiming that the devs would implement weapon nerfs because you expect Autoblock to be enabled on Multiplayer servers?

Trying to understand your logic.

Edit: Or are you saying that they would nerf 2h weapons because the PLAYER can block them too easily with Autoblock in singleplayer? What does the weapon's stat damage have to do with the game automatically choosing your block direction for you?
 

Geoarrge

Recruit
I wouldn't mind seeing auto-blocking come back, but after spending two days learning to deal with it, I think the most frustrating thing is that once your opponent lands a hit, you're very limited in how you can regain momentum while they chain up a combo. You either have to pull off a block within a narrow window, or land a kick. So there might be some interesting ways to ease the pain here apart from fully reintroducing auto-blocking.
 

DEM1L1CH

Recruit
I wouldn't mind seeing auto-blocking come back, but after spending two days learning to deal with it, I think the most frustrating thing is that once your opponent lands a hit, you're very limited in how you can regain momentum while they chain up a combo. You either have to pull off a block within a narrow window, or land a kick. So there might be some interesting ways to ease the pain here apart from fully reintroducing auto-blocking.

Please no more feature creep. At this point I would be satisfied to just have Warband with Bannerlord Graphics and Worldmap
 

durbal

Sergeant
Edit: Or are you saying that they would nerf 2h weapons because the PLAYER can block them too easily with Autoblock in singleplayer? What does the weapon's stat damage have to do with the game automatically choosing your block direction for you?

Let's say the best player can manage to block 90% of attacks using manual block with a 2h and 99% with a shield. Let's say most experienced players can manage 60-70% with 2h and 90% with a shield. Since 2h has lower defense, it should be suitably stronger offensively to compensate.

Now let's say autoblock blocks 100% and the game and metagame are balanced around that. Why would you ever use a shield in melee? It ceases to be a true viable option. Now all players (in both SP and MP) are affected because they're just handicapping themselves if they use a 1h weapon in melee. That's the issue. Something's gotta give.
 
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