Auto block and jumping horses

[kingofnoobia]

I agree auto block should be totally removed from Multiplayer. Even for new players, even though there should be some pointers for new players to practice, how about a warmup for 2 minutes every map/round and in that warm up you could hit your allies but deal no damage, but the attacks could be parried/blocked in this time veteran players could help train newers players and the warmup timer will allow players who are loading up the new round/map whatever to get in the game before the real thing starts.

New players can just use shields. If they don't have an infantry class and can't get decent/any shields, they should die anyway. No skill at manual blocking + no class made for infantry combat = dead player.

Archers no longer have to worry about people with 2-handers, they become just as good in melee as anyone else so they don't even bother running for support.  You can pick up a javelin, put it in melee mode and block everything as well as any other weapon, or as if you had a shield. 

How is this not true for a skilled manual block player?

Because the number of really skilled manual blocking players (the guys who can block as well in auto as in manual) are rather rare, and probably most play infantry classes, so an archer that is very proficient at it will be rather rare. Indeed, if an archer is a lot better with manual blocking than the 2hguy running at him, he should deserve to win anyway. He meant that now an archer who is rather unpractised and unskilled in infantry combat can be a match for an infantry player.

Autoblock exposes the lack of depth in melee combat, and favors a select few weapons.  Basically you just grab a spear or bastard sword, and hope a) their ping is bad enough that feinting works b) they're noobs/impatient enough not to absorb a blow before attempting a counter-attack.  When you attack, you try to hit them at the start of your animation, and hope their ping is high enough that they can't react.  The equivalent of a twig is able to stop a 14 pound warhammer, so there's no purpose to using large/slow weapons.  There's no purpose to readying/charging your weapons (just telegraphs your attack), so the people that do use massive weapons end up looking like the star-wars kid waving a play wand around.

Again, same story in manual block. What do you bring these arguments up for?

No it isn't. He meant that now the only weapons that do stand a chance to get past a parry are the fastest weapons. There are enough people who suck badly enough at manual block that they would get hit by a warhammer, making it a very good weapon to dispatch of less good players quickly. Now I guess everyone can parry almost everything.

Note that I am not in the beta. If anything I said is incorrect, please say so, but I freak out on Warband, and I watch a lot of vids and read a lot on the forum, so I believe what I said is correct.

 

[test]

Archers no longer have to worry about people with 2-handers, they become just as good in melee as anyone else so they don't even bother running for support.  You can pick up a javelin, put it in melee mode and block everything as well as any other weapon, or as if you had a shield. 

How is this not true for a skilled manual block player?

On the manual block server, archers actually run for help/kite, or they usually die.  Feinting actually works.  Infantry can actually get closed to counter ranged units, without having to stand toe-to-toe for 30+ seconds.

Autoblock exposes the lack of depth in melee combat, and favors a select few weapons.  Basically you just grab a spear or bastard sword, and hope a) their ping is bad enough that feinting works b) they're noobs/impatient enough not to absorb a blow before attempting a counter-attack.  When you attack, you try to hit them at the start of your animation, and hope their ping is high enough that they can't react.  The equivalent of a twig is able to stop a 14 pound warhammer, so there's no purpose to using large/slow weapons.  There's no purpose to readying/charging your weapons (just telegraphs your attack), so the people that do use massive weapons end up looking like the star-wars kid waving a play wand around.

Again, same story in manual block. What do you bring these arguments up for?

On auto-block servers it doesn't matter if you lose shield, and it doesn't matter that you didn't have one in the first place.

[quote author=Nosfe]
Even with auto-block defense with 2-handers is much more diffucult with a shield. Try feinting and you'll see the difference. Manual block sounds cool but not so much if your opponent is wearing 3 shields and has a ping much below yours. I don't see the point in forcing something so connection sensitive on every player. If you wanna do something about auto-block nerf shields so they don't create an impassable energy field around you as soon as you right-click.
[/quote]

I agree, but I think 2handers vs shields are another part of the lack of depth in melee.  Autoblock just exposes the problem further.  Melee gameplay/depth could be improved so much if a) charging/readying attacks actually did something b) 2-handers had a way to stay at range for more than one-two swings.  Having some knockback or staggering effect tied to weapon charging/weapon mass could go a long way.  Giving the "bonus damage to shields" modifier to a readied large weapon would help, too.

 

[faigulla]

I want to add that archers usually have faster 1-handed weapons with the exception of some Nord Archers I've seen with a double handed axe. We also have to take into account that an archer will have relatively less 1-handed and 2-handed proficiency than an infantry class.

 

[rdamo]

When you all say "Auto-Block" what you mean is "Auto-Parry" right?

I'm assuming the game calls it auto-block, but I see a strong distinction between block and parry.

 

[scythe111]

When you all say "Auto-Block" what you mean is "Auto-Parry" right?

I'm assuming the game calls it auto-block, but I see a strong distinction between block and parry.

kinda a noob question.. but i never noticed the option until like yesterday. the only difference in the settings is that one has a bit of recoil...? like you can't just hold your shield up and block 50 people. other than that... for 1v1 it seems the same...? correct me please haha. i wanna know.

Manual/auto blocking has nothing to do with shields, but with blocking attacks with your weapon. Auto blocking is the standard setting, and it automatically blocks in the direction of the swing of the opponent in front of you. Manual block on the other hand requires the player to block the enemy's swing manually, using a similar system as directional swings (moving your mouse left, right, up or down and right clicking).


Also, what's with the auto block hate? There's still lots of skill involved in feinting attacks, whereas with manual block fights usually don't last longer than 2 swings. Just because YOU don't like something, doesn't mean others can't enjoy it. Go play on the strict rules server, ye whiners.

thank you :] shouldnt it be called auto parry...?

beat ya there :]

 

[DarkAnd]

Even with auto-block defense with 2-handers is much more diffucult with a shield. Try feinting and you'll see the difference. Manual block sounds cool but not so much if your opponent is wearing 3 shields and has a ping much below yours. I don't see the point in forcing something so connection sensitive on every player. If you wanna do something about auto-block nerf shields so they don't create an impassable energy field around you as soon as you right-click.

seconded. the shield needs a nerf. size should = SIZE. not some number. and leg shots should be doable with thrust, too. (idk if they're not, but i've never managed to get one.)

No, because then a shield would be useless againts a spear.

 

[scythe111]

Even with auto-block defense with 2-handers is much more diffucult with a shield. Try feinting and you'll see the difference. Manual block sounds cool but not so much if your opponent is wearing 3 shields and has a ping much below yours. I don't see the point in forcing something so connection sensitive on every player. If you wanna do something about auto-block nerf shields so they don't create an impassable energy field around you as soon as you right-click.

seconded. the shield needs a nerf. size should = SIZE. not some number. and leg shots should be doable with thrust, too. (idk if they're not, but i've never managed to get one.)

No, because then a shield would be useless againts a spear.

implement crouching then! :p

 

[DarkAnd]

Having to crouch to block a spear is different than moving the mouse down, it should be way easier to block whit a shield than parry whit a sword, also, you would have to crouch evertime someone thrusted a weapon at you, because you can aim your weapon while attacking.

 

[scythe111]

Having to crouch to block a spear is different than moving the mouse down, it should be way easier to block whit a shield than parry whit a sword, also, you would have to crouch evertime someone thrusted a weapon at you, because you can aim your weapon while attacking.

sometimes. if they're aiming at your chest. if they're aiming at your foot, different story. either you drop the shield and hope it intercepts the spear somehow... or you CROUCH. with a sword, you can just perform a circling parry because a honkin bastard sword can reach down there (including the reach from your arms, of course)

 

[DarkAnd]

You dont got my point, if you trust a spear at me, aiming for the chest, I pop up the block buttom, then you move the mouse down and hit my legs.

Also, my english sucks, but you said to crouch whit a sword too? Then that makes no sense everybody would aim for the feet because the enemy will have to crouch and it gives you an advantage.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Manual/auto block IS a server option, ya know.  So, when Warband goes public, we'll have lots of man-block servers and a few auto-block servers for the new guys.  So the conflict is moot.

 

[dirtbag]

You dont got my point, if you trust a spear at me, aiming for the chest, I pop up the block buttom, then you move the mouse down and hit my legs.

Also, my english sucks, but you said to crouch whit a sword too? Then that makes no sense everybody would aim for the feet because the enemy will have to crouch and it gives you an advantage.

That's what reflexes are for.
Makes the game harder = more rewarding when succesful. A concept that is rare among todays games.

 

[scythe111]

You dont got my point, if you trust a spear at me, aiming for the chest, I pop up the block buttom, then you move the mouse down and hit my legs.

Also, my english sucks, but you said to crouch whit a sword too? Then that makes no sense everybody would aim for the feet because the enemy will have to crouch and it gives you an advantage.

no i didn't say crouch with a sword. in fact i said the opposite. i said crouch if you had a shield out to block your legs. OR GET A BIGGER SHIELD. OPENINGS=OPENINGS.

to counter the 'advantage' crouching gives, you should have to spend a second getting up (delay) where you can't turn and you can't block again until you're upright. this would only be a fraction of a second (1/2ish?) but it'd be a weakness. also, you shouldn't be able to move very fast while crouching, and anything but thrust would be very weak.

this wouldn't be so off topic if you hadn't misinterpreted what i said. parrying (i'm not calling it autoblock. f that) can block all kinds of attacks that blocking can't, and vice versa. but this topic isn't about crouching anyways. you can make a new topic if you wanna chat w/ me more about crouching.

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

Also the super jumping horses are great for avoiding attacks, they just jump over the attackers weapon Realistic? I think not.

Actually IRL you can do it 

Sarcasm is hard to detect through type, but if you are serious that you think a horse can jump that high, to avoid an attack (by a pike) I challenge you to find a video of a horse jumping high enough to do so (with a person on their back).  Horses tend to jump at a higher angle than this game shows anyway....which of course is good for height (still not high enough to avoid a pike) but not for distance....

 

[kingofnoobia]

Also, what's with the auto block hate? There's still lots of skill involved in feinting attacks, whereas with manual block fights usually don't last longer than 2 swings. Just because YOU don't like something, doesn't mean others can't enjoy it. Go play on the strict rules server, ye whiners.

Just because YOU can't block for **** manually, doesn't mean others can't either. I've heard of several players who play manual blocking a lot and who claim to be more-than-decent with it. With fights with over 10 swings. If you feint an attack and then hit it means you are not really fighting one of the top players...

Bots feint a lot in single player at superhuman speeds (sometimes 5-10 times in 2-5 seconds) in and even with manual block, faster speed and good AI I can block most of that. Multi will probably be harder but if I can block that then I'm absolutely sure that I won't miss many blocks on autoblock. Even with feinting. And feinting is not a skill. It's more like a habit.

When you all say "Auto-Block" what you mean is "Auto-Parry" right?

I'm assuming the game calls it auto-block, but I see a strong distinction between block and parry.

Well a parry is more deflecting a blow to immediately counterattack afterwards. In the game you simply put your weapon in the path of your enemy's weapons, so that's rather a simple block.

 

[Archonsod]

As someone else pointed out, auto/manual block is a server side option. As the devs stated when the beta first opened I believe.