Attack speed is far too slow! Combo's needed!

[elhermoso]

The attack speed is far too slow. It seems to take around 2-3 seconds to complete an attack and there seems to be a delay period of about 1-2 seconds where you cannot attack; rather if you click the mouse to attack again you have to wait for your player to retract or charge his sword before actually delivering.

On mounted plays this feels right. Yet on foot it results in a dull rule: i'll try and hit you once, then you can try and attack me whilst I wait about 2 or 3 seconds for my attack to finish and reposition my sword. Frankly, this makes hand to hand combat tedious, boring, and unrealistic. I am disappointed with this aspect of play.

I propose being able to launch an attack move directly after another. For example, swinging the sword left then right rather than charge sword to the right... then swing left... then charge sword to the left... then swing right... then wait again. So this proposition is a combination attack ability - something I feel will improve the game play more than anything else. Hand to hand combat feels, to me at least, seriously poor at the moment. It needs improvements!

 

[FrisianDude]

...

Not true. And combos are quite possible. Al right, not much more than kick+chop, but that's still a combo.

 

[PrinceGhaldir]

Why unrealistic? You can swing a 2 kilo sword at 30 RPM?

 

[Oskatat]

try swing left, swing right, left right, left right etc... you'll notice its much faster than the same swing all the time. Overheads usually hit, well, the head and thus do more damage, stabs are faster and do piercing damage, but are harder to pull off right

 

[Drizzlin]

I have never really had a problem putting together combos. I usually like to swift left, right combo's and finish up with a overhead or a stab pending on how my enemy is positioned, it's alot easier with a weapon that has a fast speed.

 

[elhermoso]

Go to youtube and search for "mount and blade melee fight" etc. I don't understand how you can say the attack speeds are fine? Those with swords wait so long prepping their attack, it looks and feels like a bug to me.

For example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88okaasi-pc "Mount & Blade melee fight". Watch the opponent at ~30-50 seconds. See how you have to raise your sword above your head before you attack? That part seems to take about a second to complete, it's as if your arm momentarily freezes above your head.

As I practice this game I realise the skill/trick involved in warband melee combat is actually about timing your attack with respect to this prepping of the sword, i.e. clicking the mouse to attack 5 metres before your oppenent then you will deliver your blow when you reach him. It's not about reacting as actual sword combat or any other melee game ive played is (Colosseum: Road to Freedom is a good multiplayer melee one), it's about timing this 'charge' before the attack.

I'm saying combinations would help this as we wouldnt have to pull the sword back and wait for each attack to happen, and would no longer be inclined to this 'let's take turns throwing attacks and blocking' policy I find all to often in warband: Once my opponent has thrown their attack, I know it will be a good 2 seconds before they'll ever hit me again so that is when I make my move.

Drizzlin and Oskatat, I have tried swing left/right but usually I find my attack direction is difficult to choose properly (it's usually chosen with respect to the position of my opponent although ill experiment with the other non-default settings) and it still feels far too slow than it should be.

 

[Oskatat]

standard, your attack direction is inverse mouse movement

i see why you want this changed, however, your claim to realism is doubtfull

go chop wood. do you raise the axe and as it reaches the highest point it immediately goes down again? no. it stays there a second, while you reverse the way your muscles are pulling

different weapons also react different.

Before posting things like this, because other games have some feature, also look to realism.
Do this with a weapon with higher speed rating and see, its faster!
try this move with a shovel, the easiest substitute for a sledgehammer and notice how slow you move, left to right, then right to left

with a horse charge, the skill is always to time your swing, maybe hold it if you start it too early. Any game where you need to click as close to the target as possible isnt taking actual physics in acount

 

[elhermoso]

My realism doubtful?? Have you ever watched a lumberjack competition?? Heres one for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z21xymLUho&feature=related "Championship" - How many swings was that in 13 seconds?? And they moved around to the other side of the block in between!

Lumberjacks can swing an axe, dislodge it from the wood, and have it swinging again in less than one second (proof? watch the link). Did you notice how they charged the axe for a second or two to the right before swinging it to the left of the block? What about that "second" whilst the "muscle [groups] are reversing?" (thats a relatively instant process by the way). You don't - that's because that doesn't happen in real life 'battle' or competition contexts where speed is vital.

And in chopping a block of wood, you would hold the axe above your head for a second to take in as much breath as possible to exert a more efficient downward strike. You usually only do it on a downward strike because having your arms above your head naturally expands your lungs. That 'second' you see is not a biological limitation of the muscles! It is effectively 'taking a breather'. Its easy to see why this wouldn't happen in a battle or in a lumberjack competition.

If you want to know realism in sword fighting, try watching Kendo or Fencing or some other swordmanship. That's as real as it gets today. Still, i've seen 70 year old men deliver 3 - 4 slices to a bamboo stick in one second.

Refer back to the link I posted of "Mount & Blade melee fight", can you now see why the hand to hand combat in this beloved game needs some improvements? The speed at which the attacks are delt is, i'm afraid, far from realistic, and as a result, it misses out on vital aspects of hand to hand combat such as reaction, leaving only timing of an apparent limitation in a game animation for the player to master and enjoy...

 

[Oskatat]

you know what, someone with proficiencies around 300 or above IS that fast. It just takes practice and time.... it doesnt seem to me like you have gotten that fast in the game. I cheated once to up my proficiencies, and i found that i was attacking too fast for my timing

 

[Berserker Pride]

you know what, someone with proficiencies around 300 or above IS that fast. It just takes practice and time.... it doesnt seem to me like you have gotten that fast in the game. I cheated once to up my proficiencies, and i found that i was attacking too fast for my timing

I was going to say this too.  Using a scimitar a proficiency 300 I can attack as fast as in the video.  I get sweet combos like wiping out the horse and then cutting down the still falling knight on the backswing.  This is warband singleplayer though so it is easier to fight as a mounted knight from a standstill than in 1.011.

 

[Lotus Dragon]

I agree.  No one is able to draw-cut with their katana at blinding speeds when they first start out and no one is able to chop at enemies with an axe as fast as a competetive lumberjack when they first start out.  These people you mentioned that are able to do that obviously are not beginners.  REAL Japanese sword fights are scary fast.  Same with fencing.  However, these are not beginners.  They have been training and are quite skilled at their art. 
Im not calling you out, elhermoso, just saying maybe you overlooked that.  As your skill as a melee fighter increase, your weapon swinging speed will increase as well.  Id prefer it this way.  If I start out a game being indestructable and having god-like weapon speed, its no fun.  I like working toward something.  Cutting down enemies is fun, but if I already reached my goal, that gets boring fast.

 

[elhermoso]

I agree with you on that, Lotus Dragon, Oskatat, Beserker Pride; and you are right, I think I have overlooked weapon proficiencies as far as single player goes (if weapon speeds increase with levels then there is no problem there). As for warband (i.e. multiplayer, no single player yet - that I know of - so I cannot comment); this is where I feel the hand to hand combat is lacking. You can't level up, and it feels as if you're stuck forever on the most basic weapon proficiency level.

You've drawn to my attention then that perhaps the problem is with the standard proficiency level of a player in warband (multiplayer, beta). It is surely too low. I would propose it be increased to make things feel and look more realistic and exciting.

So for multiplayer, shouldn't I expect to play as a soldier with at least some training rather than, in medieval terms, forever as a peasant; yet dressed in heavy armour and commanding an army; who acts like they have never held a sword before? As an example, consider even a complete novice lumberjack/timbersports person - they would know that if the aim is to chop a block into two in the shortest amount of time; and that it can be achieved in a matter of a few seconds, they shouldn't 'charge' their axe for 2 seconds by their side before each swing. Now give that block arms, legs, a brain, and a weapon and know that if you wait around like you have to in warband before your attack actually gets thrown, its going to hit you! Only in warband (multiplayer), it doesn't, because it's just as slow as you are.

Being able to kill a horse then the knight immediately afterwards sounds awesome, albeit a little extreme! I am hoping the weapon speeds get increased to more practical levels in warband multiplayer - at the moment those actions seem to take about 8-10 seconds... I've tried it a few times in the beta (killing a horse, then going to kill its knight), but I usually get stabbed in the back with my sword in the air waiting patiently for it to finally thrust towards the knight.

 

[Lotus Dragon]

Actually, ive managed to do that today.  It was so fun !  I think I was a huscarl using an axe.  Weapon speed in Warband Multiplayer should be increased, but not by a lot.  If you move as you swing, it seems to speed it up a little bit.  With this compensation, im completely satisfied.  Spears on the other hand are way too slow, so ill side with you on this issue when it comes to spears.  Specifically when on horseback.

 

[HTAPAWASO]

I agree with you on that, Lotus Dragon, Oskatat, Beserker Pride; and you are right, I think I have overlooked weapon proficiencies as far as single player goes (if weapon speeds increase with levels then there is no problem there). As for warband (i.e. multiplayer, no single player yet - that I know of - so I cannot comment); this is where I feel the hand to hand combat is lacking. You can't level up, and it feels as if you're stuck forever on the most basic weapon proficiency level.

You've drawn to my attention then that perhaps the problem is with the standard proficiency level of a player in warband (multiplayer, beta). It is surely too low. I would propose it be increased to make things feel and look more realistic and exciting.

So for multiplayer, shouldn't I expect to play as a soldier with at least some training rather than, in medieval terms, forever as a peasant; yet dressed in heavy armour and commanding an army; who acts like they have never held a sword before? As an example, consider even a complete novice lumberjack/timbersports person - they would know that if the aim is to chop a block into two in the shortest amount of time; and that it can be achieved in a matter of a few seconds, they shouldn't 'charge' their axe for 2 seconds by their side before each swing. Now give that block arms, legs, a brain, and a weapon and know that if you wait around like you have to in warband before your attack actually gets thrown, its going to hit you! Only in warband (multiplayer), it doesn't, because it's just as slow as you are.

Being able to kill a horse then the knight immediately afterwards sounds awesome, albeit a little extreme! I am hoping the weapon speeds get increased to more practical levels in warband multiplayer - at the moment those actions seem to take about 8-10 seconds... I've tried it a few times in the beta (killing a horse, then going to kill its knight), but I usually get stabbed in the back with my sword in the air waiting patiently for it to finally thrust towards the knight.

The game is in beta. Multiplayer is open beta, singleplayer is closed beta.

On proficiencies - every class has different proficiencies.

For example, Nord Huscarls are very fast with 1h and 2h weapons, Rhodok Sergeants are very good with polearms, etc. etc.

There is a full chart of all classes skills/proficiencies somewhere in the beta forum.




Also, a few more points:

In singleplayer, you cn go into options and alter combat speed. In that video you posted earlier, I would guess they had it on "unbelievably slow".

In MULTIPLAYER, you can change this option but it does nothing. Instead, server admins have the option to change it.
Maybe the servers you play on have this set to slow? I certainly have no problem with the speed on the Oceanic servers.
AFAIK there are 5 different settings. So it is certainly possible to make combat faster without pestering the devs for changes - just pester the admins instead, or get your own server.