At just lvl 20 Smithing, I can already break the economy. And it's no fun.

[WarPigs]

*Update* crafting items using the the "Pointed Falchion" blade needs to be nerfed: I just crafted it and it levelled me up from 50 to 90. Any item I craft with it becomes worth 50k+

As seen below, prices of 2-handled crafted weapons need rebalances. Same can be said for other smithable items. I like to make all of my party level smithing in order to increase output. But 50k (Using T4 or 5 craft items) for a sword from a lvl 20 smith is too much. I would recommend limiting higher Tier crafting items based on smithing level. I.E: T2 = lvl 20, T3 = lvl 30, T4 = lvl 40, T5 = lvl 50

https://imgur.com/J7Ew6aK

What I find interesting is that higher or lower Tier already correlates to cost:
Below is a screenshot comparing The above weapon to another 2h sword that was crafted using only Tier 1 items, and it looks like the cost balance is already there, just needa lock Tiers to the level.

https://imgur.com/a/lAFlkzW

You could also create the possibility of failing to craft (and losing all associated mats) when you craft weapons based on how much higher the difficulty bar is over your smithing skill level, with a higher percent of failure scaling exponentially.

Hope this makes sense, I almost didnt want to continue my campaign because I might be tempted to mass produce T4/5 items and break the economy. But I'll self-limit myself for now.

 

[WarPigs]

I know this has been an old bug for a year or 2, but I just want to make sure it's still being addressed.

 

[WarPigs]

jeeysus christ i didnt realize but crafting that single 50k weapon made me jump 30 levels. All It took was a single T4 Falchion blade piece, the rest were T1.

https://imgur.com/a/KsLD29R

 

[Oltopeteeh]

This can be fixed with a mod.
If you can't do it, I will
What parameters do you want to set for the falchion?

In general, the problem of blacksmithing is exponential.
More precisely, Math.Pow(2.75...) for e1.7 and Pow(2.95...) for lower versions.

A solution (from me) is to reduce the base of the degree from 2.75 to 2, as in the price of units, each tier is twice as expensive, and not 2.75 times.

OltoMod Cost

Mod cost troop (hire, ransom) and item (tier, type). Option (on/off): 2h only no reduces weapon price, new formula arrows (+tier = 2 dmg or 6 count instead dmg or 10 count), logic wage/tier (x1.4-x2),

www.nexusmods.com

 

[WarPigs]

This can be fixed with a mod.
If you can't do it, I will
What parameters do you want to set for the falchion?

In general, the problem of blacksmithing is exponential.
More precisely, Math.Pow(2.75...) for e1.7 and Pow(2.95...) for lower versions.

A solution (from me) is to reduce the base of the degree from 2.75 to 2, as in the price of units, each tier is twice as expensive, and not 2.75 times.

OltoMod Cost

Mod cost troop (hire, ransom) and item (tier, type). Option (on/off): 2h only no reduces weapon price, new formula arrows (+tier = 2 dmg or 6 count instead dmg or 10 count), logic wage/tier (x1.4-x2),

www.nexusmods.com

So I'm not sure how much the falchion blade values are, all I know is, it takes only 2 pieces of wrought iron (or 3?) and it gives a massive smithing upgrades (from lvl 100 to 115) and the price for items made with that blade jumped from 50k to 100k, 200k, etc. That's the only issue I've come across in smithing. Turns out the other components are mostly balanced, but just not that blade.

 

[Oltopeteeh]

You recognize the problem. It's good.

Next question: What are we going to do?
Reduce damage? Raise the price? Change shooting range, weight?

If yes, how much?

Equalizing the price of a falchion to other parts of the same tier will the problem be solved?

 

[Ask]

Any item I craft with it becomes worth 50k+

Wait until you pick up the artisan smith perk and they start selling for +70k, that perk is utterly broken. It pretty much makes all your crafted weapons sell for about 40-50% more.

 

[Hans 77]

Heh, so much for doing a "humble blacksmith" playthrough.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

You could also create the possibility of failing to craft (and losing all associated mats) when you craft weapons based on how much higher the difficulty bar is over your smithing skill level, with a higher percent of failure scaling exponentially.

Very underrated comment. The smithing system is still giving off way too much money way too easy. It would definitely make sense to reduce the chance of building above skill level weapons. It seems logically and also would make it harder to craft a lot of expensive weapons early on.

 

[eschew]

I don't really understand why you should be allowed to sell crafted weapons at all at this point. If you want to make money from smithing you can do it via crafting orders. It would save a lot of pain just to disallow it entirely. The biggest issue is that it's unintuitive that you can't sell crafted weapons, but I'd rather devs not waste development time tweaking values for some magical goldilocks zone where weapons sell for JUST the right amount

 

[five bucks]

@Ananda_The_Destroyer your point of view would be good here I reckon

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

@Ananda_The_Destroyer your point of view would be good here I reckon

Well okay, smithing again hmmmm..... hmmmmm....

"At just lvl 20 Smithing, I can already break the economy"​

What do you mean break the economy? You mean you ruin your own enjoyment of earning money through battle or "other" and managing you finances? Or that you are able to purchase all the food (your choice) and cause the AI some problem? You having money does not ruin anything about how the game works. You are limited in how many units you can deploy in battle, by your clan rank and perks, having more money does not allow you to circumvent this. I don't enjoy smithing and I think it (or rather waiting) is a waste of campaign time and teaches players to play poorly (wasting campaign time) but I don't think the player having money from it break the economy or effects anything but the players finance management strategy gameplay.

*Update* crafting items using the the "Pointed Falchion" blade needs to be nerfed: I just crafted it and it levelled me up from 50 to 90. Any item I craft with it becomes worth 50k+

Yeah probably, it could be they missed this part in their over hull of how values/exp would work so it's giving value like pre nerf smithing. That said, your smithing skill, leveling up or more money can't really give you any advantage. You still need to work up other skills to have any advantage and any more money then "enough" is just waste.

IMO the only way to really abuse smithing is an all in strategy where you front load your game by smithing and selling to amass say 100M or so, maybe more, then after forming your faction at clan rank 4 you use this money to buy over clans one after the other. It's expensive but any lord will turn for a certain amount IIRC. Like wise you could also build up to 300 trade and buy town and castles with wealth.

Keep in mind you can easily form your own clan out of wanderers now, so all this is just a fringe play style and not fast or needed at all.

I think the biggest need for smithing is recover stamina without waiting (waiting is always bad) and to allow unlock exp to go in a type of tree to unlock certain parts so player can unlock what they actually want. After that, sure they might as well reduce the sell prices more, but it's not as much of a boon as many players assume.

In short, campaign time is the real currency of the game, using it to smith instead of destroying enemies and taking thier fiefs is a waste.

Very underrated comment. The smithing system is still giving off way too much money way too easy. It would definitely make sense to reduce the chance of building above skill level weapons. It seems logically and also would make it harder to craft a lot of expensive weapons early on.

This would be an interesting way to go too, this is the kind of system found in many MMOs and rpgs, usually with over skill greatly increasing the chance of a higher quality too. I'm surprised TW didn't add failure and lost mats actually.

 

[five bucks]

Well okay, smithing again hmmmm..... hmmmmm....

"At just lvl 20 Smithing, I can already break the economy"​

What do you mean break the economy? You mean you ruin your own enjoyment of earning money through battle or "other" and managing you finances? Or that you are able to purchase all the food (your choice) and cause the AI some problem? You having money does not ruin anything about how the game works. You are limited in how many units you can deploy in battle, by your clan rank and perks, having more money does not allow you to circumvent this. I don't enjoy smithing and I think it (or rather waiting) is a waste of campaign time and teaches players to play poorly (wasting campaign time) but I don't think the player having money from it break the economy or effects anything but the players finance management strategy gameplay.


Yeah probably, it could be they missed this part in their over hull of how values/exp would work so it's giving value like pre nerf smithing. That said, your smithing skill, leveling up or more money can't really give you any advantage. You still need to work up other skills to have any advantage and any more money then "enough" is just waste.

IMO the only way to really abuse smithing is an all in strategy where you front load your game by smithing and selling to amass say 100M or so, maybe more, then after forming your faction at clan rank 4 you use this money to buy over clans one after the other. It's expensive but any lord will turn for a certain amount IIRC. Like wise you could also build up to 300 trade and buy town and castles with wealth.

Keep in mind you can easily form your own clan out of wanderers now, so all this is just a fringe play style and not fast or needed at all.

I think the biggest need for smithing is recover stamina without waiting (waiting is always bad) and to allow unlock exp to go in a type of tree to unlock certain parts so player can unlock what they actually want. After that, sure they might as well reduce the sell prices more, but it's not as much of a boon as many players assume.

In short, campaign time is the real currency of the game, using it to smith instead of destroying enemies and taking thier fiefs is a waste.


This would be an interesting way to go too, this is the kind of system found in many MMOs and rpgs, usually with over skill greatly increasing the chance of a higher quality too. I'm surprised TW didn't add failure and lost mats actually.

Said it better than I could!

I don't really think smithing needs much more nerfs now, or too much attention from TW compared to many other issues in the game.

 

[Foxwell Covington]

I’d like to see smithing skill used as a multiplier to the quality of the weapon so someone with 20 skill is making a weapon of very low quality/value then once you’re at say 100 skill the modifier becomes positive and your weapons become more valuable, I’d also do something like make refining/smelting scale with your skill. Reward values for crafting orders are weirdly balanced too.