Assassins

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fudachet

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More assassinations are needed when you see someone important and have lots of money you should hire an assassin or a companion with stealth skills to sneak into castles to throw poisoned daggers and kill kings to elimininate opponents. The assassins need to be highly skilled in stealth and theif skills for assassinations to work so you can't just hire too many assassins so they need high quality light armor and athelethics skills to climb buildings and move fast while wearig concealed clothing and bring specalised assassin weapons like piercing daggers or silent crossbows and get their target. They will be very expensive so you can't just hire too many but it will add an interesting element to the game to be able to take out lords and continue the game in the dark underground ways.
 
Just please no bandits in the city ambushes... always forget to wait until daytime before going in and lategame it can just break momentum.
 
Thats why you need elite bodyguards to protect you and if they invade your elite anti assassin bodyguards that guard your room should be fitted with heavy armor and high stats so that assassins will have a hard time trying to assassinate you
 
This sounds like this could just turn into an arms race where the person with the higher level bodyguard/assassin wins and used as a tool to bully lower level lords.
 
That's a great suggestion, but it have a small flaw: main characters, including lords, in Mount&Blade can't be killed.
 
hruza 说:
That's a great suggestion, but it have a small flaw: main characters, including lords, in Mount&Blade can't be killed.

In bannerlord they can
 
Frostic 说:
hruza 说:
That's a great suggestion, but it have a small flaw: main characters, including lords, in Mount&Blade can't be killed.

In bannerlord they can

*Insert "permanent death" here* was a planned feature, however, after implementing it, we found that it didn't really work well with the way our sandbox plays out, and ultimately, it wasn't much fun for the player.

I really don't think that your suggestion could be balanced properly, so ewww, I don't really see it happening.
 
Hmmm lets think about it.
Some said it would destroy the balance of the game. On the other hand it can really be a great and thrilling addition.

Is there a way to prevent this feature hurt the balance ?
Yes, if we load enough repulsiveness to this feature I think we can balance it.

How can we make it repulsive enough so that it does not become a common tactic used by the players and the AI ?
We should increase the risk factor of unsuccessful attempts so much that everyone hides this card for special occasions.

What can these risks be ?
The assassin can get caught and tortured to admit who hired him. This can devastate the player/AI npc's reputation throughout Calradia so bad. He will surely be called a dishonored warrior who prefers to stab his enemies from their back in nights rather than facing them on the field of battle like a brave lion, total shame !
He wont be accepted into factions and he will have hard time finding himself recruits for his party. Even his own troops will start to disrespect him and abondon the army quicker when things start to go bad. It will definetly be a save file destroyer.

Hmm cool, but how much will the odds for the assassin getting caught alive be ?
Not much, 20 % in total. 10% without success 10% with success of killing his target I would say.
20% he will be killed in the action with no success,
10% he will successfully kill his target but die while escaping.
30% he will successfully kill his target and get away.
20% he wont be able to kill his target but get away.

So actually killing the target is 50% in total but 10% of this(assassin getting caught and interrogated) will be so that it will make you say I wish I didnt send the assassin.
Not killing the target is also 50% and because we are heartless people, assassin being dead or alive is not important(he will be killed if he gets caught too after the interrogation btw) but 10% of getting interrogated like I said will be devastating for the person who hired him.
So 20% of getting interrogated for the assassin. Out of this 20%, 3 shall be him dying without giving any info 17 him dying with giving the info.

So actually this 17% will be the odd that keeps player/NPCs away from using this method. Because no matter how unlikely it may seem, it is very devastating and also success ratio is also just 50%.



Lord Brutus 说:
Whatever happens to AI Lords can also happen to you.  I don't want assassins in my castle.
fudachet 说:
to sneak into castles to throw poisoned daggers and kill kings to elimininate opponents. The assassins need to be highly skilled in stealth and theif skills for assassinations to work so you can't just hire too many assassins so they need high quality light armor .

Castles are a no go. Historically and logically speaking a medieval assassin would wait until the castle owner leaves his castle and takes a walk within people. The assassin would attack him in his least defended moment by his guards and thats definitely not when he sits in his throne in his castle. An assassin would never attempt that because
1)they wouldnt let him in with his weapons(heck they wouldnt let him in without weapons neither who is he ? but I know in calradia some random peasant stop by in any castle to say hi to the king or lords  :lol:) You can say he might take clothes of another guard but dont forget guards were often the best soldiers within the army so taking out one to steal his clothes is also a no go and also there is a 2nd reason:
2)running route. An assassin no matter how commited he is would still want to see another day light so he would plan his escaping route too. If you (somehow manage to) kill a lord within his castle you must forget about escaping. Guards will give you one of the most painful deaths. An assassin would want to use the chaos and disorder the peasants are going to provide to him and the best place for this is obviously in a market.
3) like I said when visiting the market with his daily clothes(no armor) a lord wouldnt bring all of his troops in the castle with himself.


So again the market is the most ideal place to attack and thats what hashasins and other medieval assassins did in medieval times. I think if the game will set a scene for assassination whether we are getting assassinated or we ARE the assassin or one of the lords guards it should be the market.


fudachet 说:
...and athelethics skills to climb buildings and move fast while wearig concealed clothing and bring specalised assassin weapons like piercing daggers or silent crossbows and get their target. 
Too much hollywood or assassins creed ?
Thats not how it worked. Assassins were good archers and patient but they were not really *from a secret organisation that raised them to be perfect from childhood* unless we are talking about hashasins. They werent unfindable gems, mostly just someone volunteered for money for his poor family and did not care if he lived or died.
I understand you are trying to add an element to make them hard to get so assassination event becomes sth rare in the game but for this lets stick with my list above. :wink:
 
I'm not in favor of assassin's but sending spies to gather information could be interesting. Of course there would be chance that they get caught and give you up or that other lords could spy on you but it might spice up game play.
 
Frostic 说:
In bannerlord they can
As of the Gamescom 2018, which is the last time I heard developers talking about "permadeath", no they can't. Feature wansn't implemented by then and moreover developers didn't tell any details about what exactly "permadeath" will be, if at all.

If you have update since then, please post it.
 
hruza 说:
Frostic 说:
In bannerlord they can
As of the Gamescom 2018, which is the last time I heard developers talking about "permadeath", no they can't. Feature wansn't implemented by then and moreover developers didn't tell any details about what exactly "permadeath" will be, if at all.

If you have update since then, please post it.

It needs to be in the game, if not, the dynasties system and childrens wouldn't make sense. Without it, at some point in your savegame, you will have a lot of lords and huge clans. That doesn't sound nice for PC performance, and neither looks something fun.
 
hruza 说:
Frostic 说:
In bannerlord they can
As of the Gamescom 2018, which is the last time I heard developers talking about "permadeath", no they can't. Feature wansn't implemented by then and moreover developers didn't tell any details about what exactly "permadeath" will be, if at all.

If you have update since then, please post it.


As for severe criminals that can’t afford to pay for their crimes, they are introduced to the judicial executioner, who helps them to shuffle off this mortal coil.

https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/96

This is one example of how characters can die, but of course there are other ways.

You decide who you’ll marry, how your clan will persist through generations and which child of yours will inherit your legacy.

https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/90

Old age will be one of them.
 
Hernanxd16 说:
It needs to be in the game, if not, the dynasties system and childrens wouldn't make sense. Without it, at some point in your savegame, you will have a lot of lords and huge clans. That doesn't sound nice for PC performance, and neither looks something fun.
Dynasties and children are in the game since original MB. Of course they are not dynamic and are not available to player, but they do exist.

John C 说:
As for severe criminals that can’t afford to pay for their crimes, they are introduced to the judicial executioner, who helps them to shuffle off this mortal coil.

This feature does not require death and there is nothing in the quote suggesting it does.

John C 说:
You decide who you’ll marry, how your clan will persist through generations and which child of yours will inherit your legacy.

Old age will be one of them.
Again, that doesn't necessarily require death (could be retirement for example), but even if it would, it would not make assassination any more viable.

I'll repeat, there is no permadeath in the game so far -in so far as we know and all we know is that developers have some vague plans of introducing it in the future -in some unclear form.

Moreover my guess is that there will be no death by "killing". If any main character could be killed, it could potentially unbalance gameplay to the extend beyond ability to control it by the developers. You need certain, relatively large number of AI lords to exist in the game for gameplay to make sense. If any of them could be killed in the battle, and given there are several battles happening every day in the game, game world would be depopulated in just a few days if only one lord would die in each battle. Therefore I think that what we will end up with will be death by the old age only. If at all.

We'll see...
 
hruza 说:
[...]
John C 说:
As for severe criminals that can’t afford to pay for their crimes, they are introduced to the judicial executioner, who helps them to shuffle off this mortal coil.

This feature does not require death and there is nothing in the quote suggesting it does.

[...]

... executioner ... shuffle off this mortal coil.

These words do not suggest death to you? I'd say they very definitely do.

You decide who you’ll marry, how your clan will persist through generations and which child of yours will inherit your legacy.

That is "generations", plural. Even when taking over as an heir while the prior character still lives, how old is he supposed to get?

Still, I also don't expect "permadeath" in the sense, that being defeated in battle would mean "game over" for that character. You probably won't die from losing battles, or the chances for it will be very low, as you'd die too easily otherwise. But some events will mean death, yes.
 
I also anticipate a quiet retreat on that front. Features with less complexity than handling the consequences of unrestricted permadeath have earned "not fun for the player" badge, and we did not even talked about the possibility of killing AI rulers without heirs. Or, you can take the sword of lord and kill him, but not a king? It was a thoughtless promise. Not the first and not the last.
 
John C 说:
These words do not suggest death to you? I'd say they very definitely do.

That is "generations", plural. Even when taking over as an heir while the prior character still lives, how old is he supposed to get?

Still, I also don't expect "permadeath" in the sense, that being defeated in battle would mean "game over" for that character. You probably won't die from losing battles, or the chances for it will be very low, as you'd die too easily otherwise. But some events will mean death, yes.

You don't necessarily need one character to die in order for heir taking over. Ageing exist also in MB and MBW, yet there is no death. You simply retire. The same mechanic can be used for inheriting. I am not saying it will, just that it can. Also we don't really know how often will inheritance happen. In MB and MBW most games dosn't even last far enough for inheritance to be meaningful. Developers said that time will pass faster, yes, but they also said that they are still tinkering with how fast, therefore we don't even know how significant this feature will be.
 
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