Armour system

[Maedhros]

From wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armour:

"Since the 15th century, most parts of the human body had been fitted with specialised steel pieces, typically worn over linen or woollen underclothes and attached to the body via leather straps and buckles. Mail protected those areas that could not be fitted with plate; for example, the back of the knee. Well-known constituent parts of plate armour include the helm, gauntlets, gorget or 'neckguard', breastplate, and greaves worn on the lower legs."


Here is a diagram of an armour, with the names of every part of it:

Edit:In case you cant see the image (I can't) here's the link: http://www.beautifuliron.com/images/DiagramGothicArmour1germanisches.JPG

Edit 2: If you get a "forbidden" error, copy the url, go to another site other than talewords and paste it on the adress bar again.



As we all know, M&B here tries to approach medieval reality.
And if you say armours were not a major industry and had an extremely important role on medieval societies, well... you... well, just don't say it. 

And as we all also know, armours here in M&B are made of four parts: the boots, helm, gloves and body.

» What I'd propose is that it develops into a more complex system with more body parts - not as complex as in the diagram, obviously.
i.e.: boots, greaves, upper leggings, breastplate, shoulder pads, gauntlets, vambraces, upper arm protection, gorget, and last, but certainly not least, helmet.


» What I'd also like to propose, in the armours theme, is that different armour types are implemented for the two races on native M&B, humans and horses:

i.e.:
Human armours:

- Equestrian armours (for horse riding, light but resistant for example - something revolving around the most useful characteristics when horse-riding)

- Foot armours (heavy, thick and resistant, specialised for close-range)

- Range armours (light and not encumbering, to allow for certain movements and not to exhaust the archer, who *theorically* has less physical resistance than a melee fighter)


*Note: Each of type of armours could have specific bonuses for different fighting styles, to make them useful and not just decorative*


Horse armours

- Charger armor (heavy armor, specialised for charging)

- Sprinter armor (light and souple, offers minimum protection while not reducing the horse's running speed an maneouverability)



*This would be a system not as complex as the human's, but also based on armour pieces, with different purposes. However, this would imply a change in the horse system I reckon, since all horses would have to become similar and only armour pieces and particular characteristics such as strength and agility of the horse would make the difference*



»There could also be an underarmour clothing system.

For example, one would need to be wearing linen or woollen underclothes in order to wear an armor, because wearing metals or alloys directly over the skin would not be 'healthy', and these clothes might also offer some small, but useful protection.





Note to reader:
YES, I know, this is all very detailed, and larger scale things need to be fixed, developed and worked on before anything such as this, but it's just to post the idea before it sweeps away from my mind, and to already have some feedback on it! 



Thanks for your time
Maedhros

 

[Archonsod]

You missed the most important point, which is what difference it would make in gameplay terms ...

 

[Maedhros]

I didn't mention it directly, because I thought it was indirectly clear
If it isn't, I apologize, and I will explain it!

As I said in the end, there are more important points to be worked on (I'm guessing here) than purely the aesthetical ones, whose objective is to make M&B realistic, beside all other obvious ones (right?).

It would also probably encourage people to follow a more specific path (which is also based on realism, since although people can do several things, the aim of specialisation is to maximise efficiency - and I'm using definitions here, hehe!) be it horse-fighting, melee or ranged, or foot-fighting, melee or ranged as well.


There would also be the financial side of it: with the system being used right now, a player either buys the whole body part, which offers quite a bit of protection, or he doesn't, and he doesn't get that protection perk.

With this system, however, a player can progressively buy the smaller parts (splitting the cost of the whole body part) as he saves his money.


Thanks again for your time



Edit: besides, it is also compatible with another suggestion I had not seen before: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,30828.0.html, by qweqwe321. Cheers mate!

 

[Dr. Guruslav]

I see only one tiny problem here. Equestrian armour was never light, they generally wore the best armour available to them, knights didn't concern themselves with it being light.

 

[Maedhros]

I did my research about armours before posting this, but not enough, it seems!

Please correct me if I'm wrong in anything else ^^

 

[Vovolov]

/signed, I like having a lot of choice, and different parts of armor to get.

 

[Corinthian Hoplite]

I just don't think the 15th century serves as an example for M&B's setting. All else is fine, though..

 

[Dr. Guruslav]

What I would love to see is armour weight affecting your run speed (or the run speed of the horse you are on), so that capturing a runaway soldier in full plate would be faster and easier (or is this in already and I just didn't notice it?).

Also armour divide into more parts would be nice, but the problem would come when you would have to travel all across the world to get a "full set" of armour.

Edit: but to reply to the last poster. Keep in mind that proper plate armour came into existence in the late 14th century, so the 15th century isn't that bad for comparison.

 

[Maedhros]

I just don't think the 15th century serves as an example for M&B's setting. All else is fine, though..

Yes, I know, it was more of an example armour: I don't think the names changed much over a few, miserable centuries

 

[rageshrub]

i think this isnt really called for. it wouldnt really make much difference in gameplay terms, and it would mess with the visuals if you have mismatched armour. i dont think this is needed or wanted by the majority. i think modern games are angling away from systems like that, because morrowind you could and oblivion you cant.

 

[alh_p]

The point as to specialisation of armour to a particular fighting style is a good one I feel. The game does already do this to an extent, but the fact that you can fire a long bow or throw a javelin as well in full plate as in a leather jerkin isn't realistic.

Overt positive bonuses would make it easier to understand and use. e.g leather armour: +1 agility, +1 Power draw, -1 Iron flesh. Or some such system, even using negatives, for the more cynical and less "arcady" of us...

 

[Maedhros]

... it wouldnt really make much difference in gameplay terms ...

Sorry mate, but I don't agree with that ^^ (otherwise I wouldn't have proposed it, hehe.)

The difference in gameplay terms you mention: Realism.

Imagine yourself in the 7th/8th century a.C., in the Iberic Peninsulae. The Arabs are spreading their military power all over, except in the northern, mountainous area. You're a Visigoth, riding along with a party of 20 men, in your plate armour, your shield on your back, and a Franquisk (small war axe from the time setting) hanging down on your left thigh, escorting a nobleman to a somewhat nearby fortress.
Suddenly, you and your companions meet an arab scout, wearing a heavy plate armor and an iron great helm, and he starts circling you and your party before you can take any action, riding his fast and light horse, captured in the North-African plains. He grabs his composite bow off his back, and with his curve scimitar flapping on his back, he starts preparing arrows to shoot at you.


Can you imagine it? Probably the whole Visigoth party would die before they could fully recover from the shock.
How stupid would that be? x)


My point is, the "classes" - between comas, because there are no classes on M&B. However, you allocate weapon points: therefore, you specialize - would look (and maybe be) better off wearing appropriate armour.

... and it would mess with the visuals if you have mismatched armour ...

As for this, dear friend, you only get your armour mismatched if you wish to do so! Visuals can perfectly 'aligned' if you choose to have them so.

And still... there are many ways to have a leather armour looking as good with a pair of mail gauntlets, plate vambraces and plate pauldrons as there are to have a mail hauberk looking good with a pair of leather boots with red underleggings! 






Thanks for your time, and cheers!

 

[Suzerain]

I see only one tiny problem here. Equestrian armour was never light, they generally wore the best armour available to them, knights didn't concern themselves with it being light.

Sorry, that's absolute rubbish.

Knights were extremely particular about weight. the concept of ultra-heavy plate armour being better was used in only one area: the joust. there, afainst one single opponent, in a controlled environment, plate was evolved thicker and heavier, to protect fully.

in the field, plate is incredibly lightweight, rapid and agile - much more than anyone who's never worn plate can imagine. it is perfectly possible to backflip in full 15th C Plate, to run, to spring onto a horse unaided, or a dozen other skills. one example was that a plated knight was expected to be capable of climbing a wall, using a pair of poinard daggers to spike into the masonry, and climb up otherwise unaided.

Plate is considerably lighter and faster than you'd ever believe. and this is coming from someone who wears such on a regular basis.

 

[Maedhros]

Wow, Suzerain. Thanks for your enlightenment 



How come you have the 'privilege' (this is me being both ironical and serious) of wearing a plate armour on a regular basis, btw? 

 

[King Justin]

Sweet, love the idea! I am very particular about my looks, and this would make it so I can customize the armour more how I like it. Also more realism is always good 

 

[Maedhros]

Erm.. bump?