Armors in different places of the world.

[Laiska-Jaakko]

Hi, everyone. I would really like to know what kind of armors different people from different cultural spheres of the world used, historically.

The question arose, when I found myself wondering, what kind of armor the warriors of the Middle East wore historically.

Now I take it medieval Europeans favored mail (chainmail) in the early middle ages, moving on to plate in the late middle ages. And of course, it can't be that simple. And thus, I would like to know more about this system and how it manifested in the Middle East, in India, in China, in Japan; in addition to Europe. I would also like to know, what kind of armor the different types of nomads wore (like desert nomads).

 

[Lord Burgess1]

To be honest mate, if you spent 5 minutes on google, you'd find all this out.

 

[Agent Griff]

Oh come on, don't bring the man down.

On the main, the warriors of the Middle East kept on favouring mail well into the Sixteenth Century, at about the same time when plate started phasing out in Europe. The only difference was that they preferred using a coat of mail with several heavy steel plates interlaced so as to provide added protection. This type of armour was called a "Krug" if I am not mistaken and was especially popular with the landed warrior classes of the Ottoman Empire.

This is a good picture of such armour. Other examples can be found in museums such as the Metropolitan Museum in New York or the Ufizzi in Florence.

Lamellar armour was also somewhat popular in the East.

As for the desert nomads...well, I doubt they used any armour at all since it would be somewhat of a hindrance to them in the desert or on the steppe. An example of such nomad garb would be the traditional outfit the Mongols and Tartars wore when they rode to battle. This consisted of a heavy coat (better coped to deal with extreme cold than with adverse weaponry), boots and the iconic hats they wore. They didn't really need any more since it was not their practice to fight in long, drawn-out combats as the knights were wont to do. Rather they were quick hit and run fighters who were better suited to harassing the foe from a distance or riding down fleeing men. Practice has shown that most of the times when they were involved in drawn out fighting against foes with superior equipment (i.e. Western Knights of any era) they were prone to break and rout. Examples of such confrontations are the battles of Lechfeld and Tannenberg/Grunwald.

Now, a question I would like to pose to the armourphiles of the forum (Aqtai, I am looking at you) is what do you know of the usual garb of Eastern European warriors from the areas covering modern Ukraine, Belarus, Western Russia and Moldavia?

 

[Gule]

To be honest mate, if you spent 5 minutes on google, you'd find all this out.

Yes, and that could answer most of the questions asked in this forum, so let's not have one, let people google everything instead!

 

[Merlkir]

The question is incredibly broad though, to give a good answer, one would have to spend hours putting together info and typing it down.

 

[Cyborg Eastern European]

And someone's bound to do it.
Either that or we'll all have to contribute a bit.

 

[Agent Griff]

I've done my bit. And yes, the question is very broad but then again this is how knowledge is sought out and found.

 

[funk]

the armor use needs to be looked at with a mind to:
1 whos armor was it? full time fighters or peasants.
2  who and how did thay fight?
3 the weapons of there foes.

armor ranges from a silk shirt to full plate armor.

nomads rarely use much metal in there armor as the labor, skills and metal need were rare.
but leather armor was the main stray of the Mongol Empire but thay used chain mail if it was available.
does anyone know just how well does katana work vs westen armor?

 

[EdwardWellcraft]

does anyone know just how well does katana work vs westen armor?

It's pretty much worthless against plate armor, but I think you might be able to pierce maille with a thrust, despite the fact that isn't quite what it was intended for. The Katana was really designed for slicing and cutting, and both maille and plate guard extremely well against cutting weapons. Of course Western swords aren't much better against plate armor anyways. (except for those designed to pierce it.)

 

[Laiska-Jaakko]

(Comment removed by author. It was very stupid. I wish I'd blanked this earlier.)

 

[Stubb]

(...) fortunately there is always someone who can answer your question.(...)

Brilliant post.

 

[Laiska-Jaakko]

(...) fortunately there is always someone who can answer your question.(...)

Brilliant post.

Yeah, I misinterpreted his post at first. How silly of me.

 

[Laiska-Jaakko]

Looking at it now, I find it isn't silly. It's outright stupid. My apology to funk, he at least he answered MY question (which is of course still open).

 

[Archonsod]

I don't see why you would ask about Thay in a thread like this in Mount & Blade forums, but fortunately there is always someone who can answer your question.

Cheers for that. I'm now wiping coffee off the monitor ....

 

[Aqtai]

Big question, but I'll try and answer it as briefly as possible.

In the Islamic Middle-East, armour was never quite as widespread as it was in Western Europe, but it was used, particularly by elite and professional troops, emirs, tribal chiefs etc.

At the time of the prophet (circa 570-632 AD) and for the first century or so afterwards, mail hauberks, quilted armours and leather armours were dominant. During the time of the prophet armour was rare, but once the Great Arab conquests got underway armour was pretty common as the Arabs captured vast amounts off the Eastern Romans and Sassanid Persians. The Arab Empire under the Ummayads and early Abbassids was also one the wealthiest empires in the world and as a result their troops would have been very well equipped.

The Abbassids started replacing their Arab troops with Iranian and Turkish troops who were seen as less likely to rebel than Arab tribal warriors, and this is when Lamellar armour probably started being used by Muslim warriors. In North Africa lamellar armour never took root, although after the Ayyubid takeover of Egypt it was used by Ayyubid and later, by Mamluk troops.

Up until the late 14th century mail and lamellar were the dominant armours in the Middle-East. In the late 14th century mail-and-plate armours appeared, with the "krug" appearing in Mamluk Egypt in the late 15th century. In the late 14th century, the Mamluks and Iranians also started using brigandines and "faux brigandines", probably as a result of Mongol influence (after their conquest of China the Mongols started using brigandines. Interestingly coats-of-plates first appear in Western Europe in the 2nd half of the 13th century; the Mongols defeated the Poles at Legnica and the Hungarians at Mohi in 1241...)

In the 15th century the armours used by the Ottomans, the Mamluks and Iranian warriors were very similar. This changed in the 16th century; The Ottomans conquered Mamluk Egypt in 1517, then in the late 16th century Ottoman and Iranian weapons and armour diverged.  the Ottomans continued to use armour similar to the types used in the 15th century up until the 2nd sige of Vienna in 1683, where as from the early 16th century the Iranians started using simpler and more elegant types of armour and helmets like the so-called kulah-khud helmet and chahar ayna cuirasses over mail Hauberks. In the late 16th and 17th centuries The armour of the Mughuls of India was under both Ottoman and Iranian influence, although the Iranian influence was always stronger.

Russian armour was strongly influenced by both Persian armour from the late 14th until the late 17th centuries. This was probably as result of Mongol Rule as by the late 14th century the Golden Horde were using Iranian style armour.

During the 16th and 17th centuries the Poles and Hungarians used a mixture of Western European and Turco-Persian arms armour (previously they had used exclusively Western European styles). 17th century Polish hussars for example used Turkish style chichak helmets, vambraces and curved sabres with Western European style cuirasses and pauldrons. Polish pancerni cavalry on the other hand were very Turkish in appearence.

Here some previous posts of mine with pictures of Middle-Eastern and Eastern European armour (you might have to scroll down a bit):

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,1341.msg338758.html#msg338758

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,1341.msg307916.html#msg307916

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,1341.msg270381.html#msg270381


And various armours:

Mamluk, Ottoman, Iranian and Mughul:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental/Kulah_khud_Iran_19th_c_1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental/Ottoman_chichak_1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental/Turban_Helmet_15th_C.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental/Mamluk_helmet_Egypt_15th_C.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental/MdHuK_Krug.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental/Mughul_Armour_VA_1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/MS_39.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/Cuisse_Iran_or_Anatolia_15th_C.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/shirt1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/shirt3.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/acpi_296_vambrace_iran_16th_C.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/acpi_cuisse_mamluk.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/acpi_greave_03.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/acpi_helmet_turkey.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/acpi_mail-and-plate_armour_Iran.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/acpi_turk_helmet_002.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/acpi_visor_iran.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/ACPI_Indian_shield_15th_C.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/ACPI_Turkish_cane_shield_16th_C.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/ACPI_Quiver_Bowcase_17th_C.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Oriental%20Warriors/**-qoyunlumail-and-platearmour15thC.jpg


Russian and Polish:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Rushelmetearly12thc.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/AN_helm_01.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Pancerni_armour_01.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/MdHuK_59_Hussar_equipment_1556.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Polish_Zischagge_002.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Hussar_cuirass_17th_C.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Bechter.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Rushelm17thC.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Zertsalofrontandback.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/mail--PlatearmourRus17thc.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/HelmetRus17thc.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/mail--PlateshieldandvambraceRus17th.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/karacena003.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/karacena004.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Hussar_armour_circa_1630_001.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Hussararmourcirca1630_002.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Hussararmourcirca1630_004.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/MdHuK_48_Hungarian_armour_1560_AD.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Nephtys/Medieval%20European%20Armour/Eastern%20Europe/Hussar_armour_01.01.jpg


Hope that answers your question!

 

[Adviser]

does anyone know just how well does katana work vs westen armor?

It's pretty much worthless against plate armor, but I think you might be able to pierce maille with a thrust, despite the fact that isn't quite what it was intended for. The Katana was really designed for slicing and cutting, and both maille and plate guard extremely well against cutting weapons. Of course Western swords aren't much better against plate armor anyways. (except for those designed to pierce it.)

Katana was/is more like a cavalry sword, since the samurai were more like cavalry men.

 

[FrisianDude]

Wow, Aqtai. Lovely post. Great pics too. When I read helmet_turkey.jpg I immediatly expect a chicak. (Or zischagge or whatever the hell else. )

 

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Steppe nomads (pechenegs, polovtsy) and Mongols used to be main enemies of Kievian, and later Moscowian Rus', so Russian warriors borrowed eastern type (lammelar, light chain armor) of armor. It was no need in heavy plates. However Russian warriors used long (common european type) swords and axes. In XV-XVI centuries Russian cavalry used sabers and bows with light lammelar shirts.

XIII-XIV centuries:

1. Knyaz (Prince).
2. Warrior of elder druzina (Prince's guard).
3. Mounted lancer.
4. Novgorodian crossbowmen.
5. Archer from hunters.
6. Vladimirian militia spearmen.



Infantry XVII century:

 

[EdwardWellcraft]

The Vaegirs need the top guy's helmet, maille aventail and all. Also I didn't know the Muscovites(Or were they Russian at this time? The History of Russia/Muscovy is something I never got down.) used this mishmash of European weapons and Eastern armor.

 

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Also I didn't know the Muscovites(Or were they Russian at this time? The History of Russia/Muscovy is something I never got down.) used this mishmash of European weapons and Eastern armor.

Well Russia belong to European civilisation after all).