Armor reducing attack speed

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Auvar

Currently, heavier armor reduces your movement speed, which is great. Because most people (I gather) fight mounted, however, it doesn't seem like much of a disadvantage, especially with a 33-armor charger that doesn't usually die unless you jump heroically off a cliff.

I'm aware that armor from this period isn't as bulky and stiff as it is often made out to be (I've heard of people doing cartwheels in plate mail, not sure if that's possible or not), but it would certainly increase the amount of decisionmaking necessary to choose an armor if the weight/armor value of the armor actually decreased attack speed slightly as well. At present, the "best" armor is either a leather jerkin (if you want to be a fast footman or foot archer) or black armor (for everyone else), and the only reason not to use these armors would seem to be poverty or the inability to locate some good black armor.

Similar to the way in which agility increases attack speed for all weapons, heavier armor could have a modest opposite effect, thus making the leather armor tactic of the mounted steppe raider more viable; he's not as well armored, but he can swing that sabre faster than an armored knight can swing his sword. It would increase the value of "middle" armors like padded cloth or scale, that are usually skipped over otherwise.
 
excellent suggestion. fighting in heavier armor should negatively affect your ability to fight much more then it currently does. the more encumbrance your armor has, the slower you move on foot, the slower you swing, the longer it takes to recover from a swing, the longer it takes to recover from a hit, the easier you are to knock down because you wount be as balanced, and more. maybe there could be a heavy armor skill that reduces these penaltys somewhat, or the athletics skill could reduce them instead.
 
The weight thing isnt just armor - its everything you carry. Carrying throwing weapons along with your other weapons can slow you down alot. They weigh 5 each, which is about equal to most of the lighter armors.

A char with 4 throwing weps is as slow as a char with equal strength in heavy armor :smile:
 
Corksacker, I was also considering the idea of a skill that moderated those penalties somewhat, but it occured to me that you can already increase your weapon speed by pumping agility. While such a skill might still be viable, I wonder if it wouldn't be redundant; if you want to attack faster in heavier armor, you just need a higher agility, right?
 
Well, in fact, scale armors are about as heavy as plate mail while giving worse weight distribution and protection. Much easier to put on, though.
But again, plate mail is way 'overpowered' armor - light, give almost complete protection aganst slashing weapons, and you can even dance in one (with training, for course)!
However, I'd better ask for stamina. In heavier armors, you'd tire attacking faster then in light one, of course. And a skill 'heavy armor' to reduce this somewhat... sounds rather balanced. See "reduce knockdown effect" thread for more details. :smile:
Comments?
 
I'm just going off the weights given in the game; scale mail probably is more tiring in real life, as it just hangs off your shoulders.

If a stamina system was introduced, where heavier armor and more encumbrance (as well as activity) made you attack and move more slowly, I'd be all for it, and there would be no need to make the armor itself penalize your attack speed. If stamina (or something like it) is not going to be introduced, then I think the reduction of attack speed would be a good solution. Either way would make the other armor types more attractive to players, and make lighter armor actually useful to some mounted troops.

And of course, with a stamina system, a skill that lowered stamina drain/penalties would be a must.
 
im in total support of adding stamina to the game, it would add a ton of flavour and variety to combat. things like balancing high encumbrance when on foot, running, and special moves would all benefit from a stamina system.
 
I also think that something like stamina should be added - GOOD armor doesn't reduce your attack speed. But your body weight increases, and you spend more efforts to make any move.
Stamina (or, maybe Breath would be better, because ST is already STrength) could be based on ST, for example, ST*10. BR (BReath) regenerates slowly when you walk and drains when you run. There might be some skill that increases BR regeneration - Breath Control, for example, so with high skill you can even run and restore your BR! This skill would be a perfect choise for some monk))
When you strike, your BR decreases by the amount that depends on weapon weight, is balance, your encumbrance, solar activity and so on... :lol:
 
Yea, that would be perfect. While it's possible for armored, yet uber-trained people to fight for hours, they were not fighting for hours non-stop, that's for sure. And combined with relief of 'attack disruption' - it will make taking on armies while alone and on foot more or less impossible, but impossbile in a realistic way, not like it's now. While it's rather minor thing - since usually you are not dismounted very often - it's certainly annoing when it happends.
 
i would still like a few templates where its possible to solo on foot though,
if you had the right skill/stat distribution.
 
There's no need to get as abstract as Breath. Since M&B is already adhering to the traditional labelling of stats, it can choose from Stamina (STA) (it actually uses STR, not ST), Constitution (CON) or Endurance (END).

For anyone who plays RPGs, computer or tabletop, the 'stamina' stat is noticably absent from the choice of stats. That and luck.
 
For anyone who plays RPGs, computer or tabletop, the 'stamina' stat is noticably absent from the choice of stats. That and luck.

im kinda hoping that more stats will be added later on for a more customizable character. things like preception and constituion, because 99.9% of the time, the only stats any kind of character will need is agility and strength with the odd charisma here and there.

Im wondering if armagan made the skill/stat system as simple as it is on purpose to avoid complexity, or if he's planning to add on to it later.
 
corksacker69 said:
im kinda hoping that more stats will be added later on for a more customizable character. things like preception and constituion, because 99.9% of the time, the only stats any kind of character will need is agility and strength with the odd charisma here and there.

I actually find intelligence to be the one of the most useful stats (behind Charisma). I mean, the other stuff might help you with combat a little bit, but what good is that if you only have 10 units and they get killed every battle?

And I'm not so sure a stamina stat is necessary. It would only serve to water down the strength stat.
 
I think the simplicity of the statistic system is a great strength of M&B - there's no point in muddying the waters just for the sake of making it more complicated, and pointlessly so. Don't do complexity for complexity's sake - you'll make it inaccessible to all but the most anal.
 
complexity adds variety. having a system where its possible to play the game over with more then just a few character templates, and styles, then you extend the replay value several times over. as is, when you make a warrior, its too easy to pump up all the characteristics of the both the games general templates, archery and melee, so you basicly use up all the games possible charcater customization in only one game.
 
A reduction in attack speed based on armor weight or type would be quite simple, if a stamina system wasn't implemented. I made my original point with the assumption that the core principles of the game (four ability scores, for instance) weren't going to be changed. If that is changed, fine, if not, I think reducing speed of attacks would still be a great way to make other armors besides black and leather jerkin more attractive.
 
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