Armor and realism

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I just wanted to point out some inconsistencies about the armor system: right now it just seems to affect overall protection and movement speed, which seems a bit unrealistic, since:
1) I think that donning a full plate requires no less than 5 minutes if someone helps the wearer, so how come one can switch from black plate to leather apron (I LOVE the sheer uselessness and ugliness of it) while a Vaegir knight charges him/her? Even Neverwinter Nights (which someone on this forum defines as a "stupid game") doesn't allow armor switching during a fight...
2) The average weight of a plate armor should be around 50 pounds, and since it's built to be nearly self-supporting (I mean that it interlocks so that it requires no extraordinary effort to remain standing for re than 10 minutes), it must necessarily impair the wearer's mobility: I really doubt that a unhorsed knight could get up all by himself, and I know for a fact that death by drowning in mud or 3-inches deep ponds was all but uncommon for plate wearers.
3) Mounting and dismounting horses should take longer depending on how heavy and cumbersome the armor is
4) You'd think that a courser (built for speed more than sheer carrying power) would have serious difficulties carrying a plate-clad warrior (and what about the swaybacked ones? lol), wouldn't it?

The point I'm trying to make is that, while cool, plate armor wasn't the usual choice for knights and suchlike (even if they could afford the exorbitant price...), I believe they went for chainmail with some plate reinforcements in vital parts...

These aren't really important issues in my opinion, the game is exceptional fun as it is (discovered on Underdogs, downloaded, built a lousy char, built a second char that reached lvl 6, bought the game... all in less than 2 hours!), but since we're talking about realism...
 
And true you are!

It is necessary to distinguish between battle plate armor and tournament plate armor.

Tournament suits were much heavier, to minimize injuries. Contestants had to be lifted on horses by cranes sometimes.

Battle suits, however, were built with mobility in mind. I don't know about handstands, but the knight definitely had to be able to stand after falling from horse (this was not uncommon, since the horse was killed much easier, and halberdiers often aimed at its legs), otherwise he would be quite useless. Also, dismounted knights sometimes fought side-to-side with footmen when the use of horses was impractical (town defenses, for example). The mobility was of course impaired, but not as much as you might think.
 
i actualy asked a friend of mine, who by some strange twist of fate happend to be a knight. he told me that he could infact do a hand stand with his armour on, it just takes pratcice...*scarcasm meter explodes*
 
Seems I overlooked the difference between tournament and field plate... my mistake then...
but the instant-armor-change feature is still weird!
 
Instant armor change is weird but not as weird as a guy who wants to wear a leather apron in a fantasy game. And I like Neverwinter Nights because I am stupid. I guess. When the Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie is made into a fun game then my computer dude will be known as Leather Apron.
 
Nairagorn said:
I agree with that totally. You shouldn't be able to insta-change armor when in a fight. Actually, I don't think I've ever tried... why would you want to?
One scenario I can think of: you wore your heaviest armor because you were riding a horse into battle, but your horse was knocked out, and now you have to fight on foot. I actually kept a suit of thick leather in my inventory for my first 20 levels or so for just that purpose, since my only decent weapon was my crossbow. Of course, now I just go all tazmanian devil with my watered-steel nomad sabre if I'm unhorsed, and that usually holds them off until my reinforcements arrive.

Mind you, I agree that it shouldn't be possible to change armor that quickly, if at all. You could change helmets, maybe, but not a whole suit of armor.
 
The problem is that to get dressed up even in chain mail took some time because they wore stuff under it, to be in the middle of a fight and start stripping your armor off to put on some different armor would be absurd.
 
I wasn't saying it should actually be possible to change armor like that. I was just suggesting a scenario in which you might want to. :wink:
 
Yes, an unhorsed knight in full armor could get up himself.

Not right away, of course. First you have to recover from being knocked off your horse and falling to the ground in 50lbs of steel. That takes the wind out of you. :razz: Moreso if you were moving quickly at the time.

Then, of course, what with all the layers (and the material it's made from), plate armor is not extraodinarily flexible. Might take you up to another minute to move to a position where you can get up despite loss of mobility in certain areas (i.e. Torso).

Of course, if at any point, an archer comes along and sits on you (as the English did to downed French knights), well, their weight + less flexibility + armor weight means you're not getting up too soon, and there's plenty of time to hammer a spike through your chestplate (again, like the English did to the French). That's not a problem in M&B, however. :roll:
 
yes, exactly... when you fall off a horse you should get
1. hurt at least a little
2. get impaled for 2secs unless you were prepared for it..

and a knight with 40libres on himself does take sometime to get up..
i mean, you dont get up as fast as a person without anything does...
and you cant move like an athlete, since the thingy slows your movements and some you cant do at all, for example bend over
 
A knight has been training in armor for most of his life, so he's somewhat stronger than the peasant who's only worn itchy wool tunics. You can jog for short distances and even charge on foot. You can get some great momentum going with that armor (just hope no-one trips you, or all the momentum meets the ground and ... ouch!).

They wouldn't be lumbering about the battlefield ... but they wouldn't be as fast as an unemcumbered peasant, either. I think the weight of your equipment is already factored in to your movement speed, offset by strength.
 
yes, but you not only need str to wear it, you need MORE strenght to run in it..
so str requirements should( or are they?) implemented in the game..
and speed factor is not implemented.. the mroe strength the faster you move as well.. but not by a big perchantage, more like some 10% until str 10, then 5%...
or something
 
Having a STR requirement for heavier armor (Brigantine, Plate, Black (Full Plate)) would be a good idea - probably for the Lamellar and Chain Hauberk as well (that stuff wasn't quite as heavy as plate, but it's all on your shoulders instead of spread out!).

STR and encumbrance play a factor - put on a suit of Plate with a low STR and you'll never get above walking speed (try it - really annoying when you're de-horsed). A more dynamic system would be preferable, though it's not highest on my list of priorities (what is? Capturing cities! :twisted: ).
 
LB said:
Yes, an unhorsed knight in full armor could get up himself.

Not right away, of course. First you have to recover from being knocked off your horse and falling to the ground in 50lbs of steel. That takes the wind out of you. :razz: Moreso if you were moving quickly at the time.

Then, of course, what with all the layers (and the material it's made from), plate armor is not extraodinarily flexible. Might take you up to another minute to move to a position where you can get up despite loss of mobility in certain areas (i.e. Torso).

Of course, if at any point, an archer comes along and sits on you (as the English did to downed French knights), well, their weight + less flexibility + armor weight means you're not getting up too soon, and there's plenty of time to hammer a spike through your chestplate (again, like the English did to the French). That's not a problem in M&B, however. :roll:
Thank God ,that whole spike in the chest stuff sounds like a bear.
 
Yes, as other people have pointed out, you could easily get up in plate armor, chain could actually be more of a pain to wear because of the weight being mostly on your shoulders instead of more evenly throughout your body.

I'd also like to point out that people didn't wear full chain under plate but for a very brief time, in which it was too much of a burden to wear really, so they instead developed a technique to stitch chain patches directly to plate armor on weak points (like the arm pits/groin, etc).

As far as "Drowning" in the mud, I believe you are talking about the Battle of Agincourt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt#The_Battle

They didn't "drown" because of the "weight" of their armor, they likely drowned becuase of:
1. The mud, suction to things, etc, that makes it diffcult to get up regardless of armor or no armor.
2. Crowding of people, trampling, etc.
 
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