There are some questions waiting answer(to see if there is a equal/suitable/valuable/humanist approach for reaching truth in modern days) that i asked to "captured Joe". They are the questions in this subject.
Armenian Genocide (?)
- 主题发起人 Janissary1453
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From the way he is building his argument it is entirely possible.
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Nice to see you count possibilities 
Btw, i think that i wrote enough about this subject. Questions' answers(each of them) important to identify problems, take lessons & make better future all together.. If you just want to stay in a side, and go behind an interest for yourself.. That's just a popular politic.
Hopefully, there will be a well prepared court that -all- sides meet & truth become clear(whatever it is + or - ).
Words from a kid.
Btw, i think that i wrote enough about this subject. Questions' answers(each of them) important to identify problems, take lessons & make better future all together.. If you just want to stay in a side, and go behind an interest for yourself.. That's just a popular politic.
Hopefully, there will be a well prepared court that -all- sides meet & truth become clear(whatever it is + or - ).
Words from a kid.
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I am not sure what the question here is... You're looking for my arguments? Well:
Sayfo - Wikipedia
Greek genocide - Wikipedia
When even your military allies acknowledge you're commiting several genocides while still at war...
All of this is very easy to find, by the way. Maybe not in Turkey though! If you wish I can also take the effort to quote non-Wikipedia sources like historian Misha Glenny (who also documents ethnic conflicts in the Balkans in an impressively impartial manner).
As if Turkey would even go to a court about it, let alone accept documentation proving it was done through intention.
The fact that you cannot even discuss the Armenian genocide in Turkey should perfectly explain why you should not trust Turkey's stance on it. To argue that it never happened, and that Turkey isn't actively lying about it and trying to cover it up—despite all of the displaced Armenians who tried to escape the genocide, not to mention, all of the evidence—is insanity.
What about the letters with Şakir's signature on them, which came directly from the Ottoman Archives? It detailed governors using Teşkilât-ı Mahsusa to exterminate Armenians in 1914-15. If you do not know who Şakir is, he led the Special Organization. What about the dozens of photos and reports by various journalists (across all sorts of faith and countries) which reported on the premediated genocide of Armenians? I would post the pictures here, but I am not sure if it will violate forum rules, but one of the most disturbing images is that of the village of Sheyxalan. Russian soldiers happened upon a collapsed building quite literally full of Armenian bodies.
Making matters worse, the Ottoman Empire even banned photographic and other such evidences being made and kept. If a country was innocent of these things, what would they have to hide? Why ban recording it? Could it be that they didn't want the world to know of what they did? Nah, what am I talking about, the more likely option is that Mehmed Talaat meant something else when he said, "everything must be done to abolish even the word 'Armenia' in Turkey", right? Maybe he just meant calling them something else because he cared so much for them.
I get it. You do not want to admit your country was capable of such horrific atrocities, but it happened, and no amount of Turkey lying about it will change it. There are documents of leaders discussing how to exterminate them, how to abolish the very idea of them from Turkey, photos of mass murder along roads that made piles of bodies so high you couldn't see over them, reports by journalists witnessing horrific murder, rape and abuse, of Turkish men (soldiers, mostly) starving out fleeing Armenians...all of that fake. Every single person who reported it, lied. Every Armenian body along the road just happened to die while fleeing to safety.
Grow up.
I am not surprised whatsoever you would say something like this.
@Captured Joe questions not answered. You should read all my responds for the questions & consider the matters better with questions for the common future. I hope you get what things i tried to say from all my responds. And, thanks for the other two arguments, (as always, and everywhere, courts needed for all genocide arguments indeed), ill keep them in mind, and ilk try to see what locals say in historical videos.
@Ser Jon bring all stuffs to court, let turkish historicans do the same. Make better identify if u right(offical way in law). Make same for all arguments. Make future better for all. Please.
I'll bite.
What do these Turkish historians have that directly disproves the Armenian genocide and why does their opinion outweigh the world, whom have a long list of evidence? What evidence could these historians have that hasn't managed to convince the world? It seems like all you want to do is deny it all without explaining why you think the Turkish government isn't lying about the genocide—except being rather insistent these historians harbor some grand evidence to prove innocence yet won't share it with the world and that no one should hold Turkey accountable unless some world court does. Which is ridiculous.
Oh for crying out loud. Here is a list of international actors that have already officially put their weight behind recognizing the genocide for what it is, and this is just a quick list from Wikipedia.
Who exactly do you suggest would pass judgement on Turkey in this imaginary tribunal of yours? There is not an international actor that would not recognize the genocide for what it is, because they all already have. I can not comprehend why on Earth y'all are being so stubborn about this. Like your government, I get it. You as individuals I absolutely do not. I can understand not wanting to openly admit that it happened since you could actually get in trouble over it, but why you are wasting so much time and energy defending the denialist position in this pointless discussion is beyond me.
The United Nations
The Catholic Church
International Association of Genocide Scholars
International Center for Transitional Justice
European Parliament
Council of Europe
American Jewish organizations
Central Council of Jews in Germany
European People's Party
World Council of Churches
European Green Party
Mercosur Parliament
Latin American Parliament
Interparliamentary Assembly on Orthodoxy
European Alliance of YMCAs
Andean Parliament
Centrist Democrat International
Central American Parliament
Global Greens
Permanent Peoples' Tribunal
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Pretty much every country in the world except for Turkey, you can see a map on Wikipedia. Kurds even admitted their role in it and officially apologized.
The Catholic Church
International Association of Genocide Scholars
International Center for Transitional Justice
European Parliament
Council of Europe
American Jewish organizations
Central Council of Jews in Germany
European People's Party
World Council of Churches
European Green Party
Mercosur Parliament
Latin American Parliament
Interparliamentary Assembly on Orthodoxy
European Alliance of YMCAs
Andean Parliament
Centrist Democrat International
Central American Parliament
Global Greens
Permanent Peoples' Tribunal
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Pretty much every country in the world except for Turkey, you can see a map on Wikipedia. Kurds even admitted their role in it and officially apologized.
Who exactly do you suggest would pass judgement on Turkey in this imaginary tribunal of yours? There is not an international actor that would not recognize the genocide for what it is, because they all already have. I can not comprehend why on Earth y'all are being so stubborn about this. Like your government, I get it. You as individuals I absolutely do not. I can understand not wanting to openly admit that it happened since you could actually get in trouble over it, but why you are wasting so much time and energy defending the denialist position in this pointless discussion is beyond me.
Maybe the hard part for children extremely youthful persons like dijiTurk is that they'll have to accept that the authorities in their lives deliberately lied to them - the schools, their dear Leader, their historians -
Edit: edited so I wouldn't share MostBlunted's sad fate at the hands of the cruel authorities
Edit: edited so I wouldn't share MostBlunted's sad fate at the hands of the cruel authorities
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His English aptitude is not what I meant when I said "the way he is talking", I am not a native speaker myself and make mistakes all the time. I mean that his logic makes no sense whatsoever which is part of why I am getting frustrated. But point taken, and I am probably getting more worked up about this than it's worth anyway so I will see myself out now.
Edit: in fact that very post was probably a good example of me making a mistake
I edited it so that hopefully it is more clear.
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I cant tell all stuff. There are many strong evidences as i hear. I think(just my idea) the base argument is related with riot & relocation in war times. If i dont get it wrong; in the event of war, the riots encouraged by Russia in the eastern lands, and the mutual bad events occurred together with these riots, and the state moved the Armenians that made the rebellion out of the borders.
Dont forget. This is not an offical respond. Only officals can answer questions.
There are many historical details, and there is even a court result that positively supports Turkey. Those are not my case. I'm just telling that all must bring all arguments to court Thats the place. Do that, & approach for all's godness. This gives rights back & prevents future crimes(if its available in any case)
I'm not talking about political decisions or parliamentary approvals. I'm talking about values+rights+law+future(without standing any side at any controversial argument). I think there may an international actor at Europe/England/US etc? Idk, it can be only in an international actor but where is it? I really dont know.
I'm fine with lil-adjectives unless they are too heavy. You can call me child. If you go an universal court to identify if its available or not; i can see them as liar(or not).Maybe the hard part forchildrenextremely youthful persons like dijiTurk is that they'll have to accept that the authorities in their lives deliberately lied to them - the schools, their dear Leader, their historians -
Edit: edited so I wouldn't share MostBlunted's sad fate at the hands of the cruel authorities
Btw, if u get what i'm talking about(hopefully), that's enough.
I'd like to stop writing here until there is a final court result. I did write enough imo, and i'm just a citizen of the world.
Again. Provide the evidence, whatever you do have. If you do not know what any of the evidence is, that makes your stance even more of a joke, because you are refusing to admit the Armenian genocide happened based on literally nothing.
No, not only your officials can answer these questions. Your government has mind whipped you so hard it's ridiculous.
No, not only your officials can answer these questions. Your government has mind whipped you so hard it's ridiculous.
Again, i'm not the one that has evidences. And, the place is not here.
However, this book may have some evidences:
Facts On The Relocation Of Armenians 1914-1918 : Yusuf Halaçoğlu: Amazon.com.tr: Kitap
Facts On The Relocation Of Armenians 1914-1918 : Yusuf Halaçoğlu: Amazon.com.tr: Kitap
www.amazon.com.tr
Then why are you posting here? You have no evidence to prove your position or you refuse to provide it and you insist the discussion can't be had here, only by the Turkish governmental officials, who are known to be more corrupt than a 1940s cartoon villain. If you do not have anything worth while sharing, do you really need to post here at all?
You are wasting everyone's time though. You are not arguing anything and you are not proving anything. Complaining that only your Turkish officials can tell the truth (which is stupid) is not providing an argument, no matter much you want to believe it. If you think that only a world court packed with Turkish elite deniers is the only way to find the truth, you have no need to post here, right? You don't want to hear how you are wrong, how Turkey is wrong, you are only interested in believing what Turkey says about it, and worst of all, you don't even know why. You are literally a blind puppet at this point.
The more i listen Turkish TV broadcasts, the more non-popular findings i hear about the argument..
After the early-british-court's-result thing.. Now, i heard that there are 2-3 men, like this one:
en.m.wikipedia.org
Interesting?
After the early-british-court's-result thing.. Now, i heard that there are 2-3 men, like this one:
Stanford J. Shaw - Wikipedia
No, because that man's work is known to be inaccurate. I wouldn't be interested in someone who is not known to produce quality nor would I find his work intriguing. On the contrary, I'd avoid it.Interesting?Stanford J. Shaw - Wikipedia
