Are you going to close every suggestion thread "because TW's never going to do it"?

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TengriBless

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If you want to lock a thread because it's too far gone into interpersonal quarrels say it as much and don't pretend to have done it just "because the suggestion was pointless as it would never even be considered". Mate, that's just a tasteless joke at a point when as much as a pittance of the suggestions here can ever hope to make it to TW staff. Might as well tear down the entire suggestions subforum given only clueless new punks use it thinking it counts for something.
 
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FizCap

Regular
WB
The suggestion forum might have a use since it seems modders love to fix issues with the game, could be where they find their inspiration.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
If you want to lock a thread because it's too far gone into interpersonal quarrels say it as much and don't pretend to have done it just "because the suggestion was pointless as it would never even be considered". Mate, that's just a tasteless joke at a point when as much as a pittance of the suggestions here can ever hope to make it to TW staff. Might as well tear down the entire suggestions subforum given only clueless new punks use it thinking it counts for something.
Do you have a particular thread in mind, or...?
 

AngryPanCake

Veteran
The suggestion forum might have a use since it seems modders love to fix issues with the game, could be where they find their inspiration.

Historically, suggestion forums are just that...suggestions, mostly to make the community feel good about having "a say". In my experience, the suggestions are rarely considered and even to a less degree implemented. I am not talking just about this forum, but all game forums I've been a member of. A suggestion among thousands might be "looked into" here and there and forumites get all excited and think they are being listened to, but it's usually just to keep the hopes alive.

However, I do agree that suggestion forums are a source of inspiration/bug list for modders.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Suggestions forum is the exact thing as this forum minus the views, attention and responses. Similar to addressing a political speech to a mildly disinterested Black Hole.
 

Captain Obvious

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It is def more to inspire modders than it is to really give anything for TWs to add. So see it as a positive, modders will do things eventually :smile:
 

TengriBless

Veteran
It is def more to inspire modders than it is to really give anything for TWs to add. So see it as a positive, modders will do things eventually :smile:
Discrediting the existence of the suggestions subforum isn't even the central point of the thread. You're delving too deep into what is essentially a quip on the side.
Do you have a particular thread in mind, or...?
Oh you coy bast- fellow, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
I do know, I just wanted you to admit it.

For any who are curious, this is the "suggestion" being referred to. So what's happened is we've kicked up a fuss about moderation transparency while being deliberately vague & disingenuous.

You're too intelligent to not recognize that as a troll thread, and you've been here long enough to have seen several just like it. Threads demanding TW sell their IP (for the implied or explicit reasons of incompetence, lack of care, mismanagement, the weather, the old pic of Armagan working in his undies at home, cav is op, whatever) have never been posted in good faith. They have all been attempts to vent frustration and hurl insults directly at the company with the thin excuse of "it's only a suggestion."

So no, forum staff are not shutting down suggestion threads just because they're unlikely to be accepted. The last genuine suggestion thread to be locked was a duplicate thread asking for South American servers weeks ago. It was locked for being a duplicate with no warnings issued, and I pestered TW myself about it through the channels available to me because I am admittedly biased when it comes to our friends down south getting ignored.
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Historically, suggestion forums are just that...suggestions, mostly to make the community feel good about having "a say". In my experience, the suggestions are rarely considered and even to a less degree implemented. I am not talking just about this forum, but all game forums I've been a member of. A suggestion among thousands might be "looked into" here and there and forumites get all excited and think they are being listened to, but it's usually just to keep the hopes alive.
In my former life as a cynical modder, a suggestion thread on a popular mod board was like a magnetic trash can where over-enthusiastic fans with no clue about game design would have an outlet for their burning desire to be a part of development. If you didn't have a suggestion thread, they would just spam their own suggestion threads, so it kept the board tidy and little else. :razz:
 
Historically, suggestion forums are just that...suggestions, mostly to make the community feel good about having "a say". In my experience, the suggestions are rarely considered and even to a less degree implemented. I am not talking just about this forum, but all game forums I've been a member of. A suggestion among thousands might be "looked into" here and there and forumites get all excited and think they are being listened to, but it's usually just to keep the hopes alive.

However, I do agree that suggestion forums are a source of inspiration/bug list for modders.
very helpful advice!! I still wish they could "look" or "listen" I have a serious BIG issue about the game and ive seen many others share the same thought and... i dont know... i love the game i wish i could help... i mean, this is a big problem, not like "cavalry too weak", "need new armor", "bug to fix" i mean developers should listen but i just dont know what to do......................
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
The suggestion forum might have a use since it seems modders love to fix issues with the game, could be where they find their inspiration.
Suggestions for multiplayer will likely amount to nothing due to the dev team having an extremely specific vision in mind regarding how a multiplayer Mount&Blade game should be played. Considering the Steam vs Epic debacle, I think it'd be reasonable to believe that TaleWorlds' vision for M&B multiplayer is objectively wrong.
 

TengriBless

Veteran
Threads demanding TW sell their IP (for the implied or explicit reasons of incompetence, lack of care, mismanagement, the weather, the old pic of Armagan working in his undies at home, cav is op, whatever) have never been posted in good faith. They have all been attempts to vent frustration and hurl insults directly at the company with the thin excuse of "it's only a suggestion."
Why do you get to decide the intentions of the writer when his thread could just as well be interpreted as a genuine suggestion he saw as the only way to change the direction of development, positively or negatively, because if we're being honest, the game can only go up at this point. That his interest for the good of the game undermines his sympathy for a studio that is as indifferent to him as the universe to a moss doesn't make him a "troll" out for developer blood. Though I can see why you would care for neither the motives nor the veracity of his statements if your job was to safeguard TW's name from being pissed on at any chance you get. Which also explains why the notorious "appreciation posts" (which are uniform in format and even posted several times by single individuals) are welcomed with positive staff reaction when all the discussion they make for is sensible but probably insane people making the case for the game being a catastrophe.
So no, forum staff are not shutting down suggestion threads just because they're unlikely to be accepted. The last genuine suggestion thread to be locked was a duplicate thread asking for South American servers weeks ago. It was locked for being a duplicate with no warnings issued, and I pestered TW myself about it through the channels available to me because I am admittedly biased when it comes to our friends down south getting ignored.
Thank you for your sacrifice. It is among the greatest injustices of our century that all 150 of our South American comrades can't experience the atrocity that is Bannerlord MP with acceptable ping.
 

Younes

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Forum users on their way to suggest to russia to uninvade ukraine and get angry when posts like this get locked because of how ridiculous they sound.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
Why do you get to decide the intentions of the writer
Why? Because I moderate this forum. If I was unable to determine what a user's intentions were, every post in every thread would be left as-is while I sat here frozen in indecision. Who knows, maybe the next guy littering his post with racial slurs and pornography is doing it satirically. Who am I to decide that his post isn't intended to be comical?

Likewise, when someone suggests that the company is so woefully incompetent and bassackwards in their decision-making that they are undeserving of their own property, which they themselves made, and says as much in their post, it's hard to take that in good faith. Who on Earth genuinely believes that a third party with no knowledge of the code base, no familiarity with the engine, and no experience working on titles like this (as you know there are still no others in this niche except those licensed by TW), would somehow improve the development process or timeline? It's asinine. Plus, from the perspective of an outside company, it would be an investment not in this product, but in future products for the IP. The majority of Bannerlord sales have likely already been made. There's likely only the loss of continued development costs left to be made with a small bump of sales on the official release day. The sensible thing then would be to push a couple stability patches on BL, call it release-ready, and start working on the next title. There's no reason an outside company would actually shoulder the burden of meaningfully changing the direction of BL.

Though I can see why you would care for neither the motives nor the veracity of his statements if your job was to safeguard TW's name from being pissed on at any chance you get.
I recognize this as bait, but just because it's convenient at this time to demonstrate otherwise, here's a recent thread of a moderator's thoughts on the current state of MP. Tell me again how our job is to protect TW from any criticism & kiss ass. Should I dig up some of my own posts or threads as well?

Which also explains why the notorious "appreciation posts" (which are uniform in format and even posted several times by single individuals) are welcomed with positive staff reaction when all the discussion they make for is sensible but probably insane people making the case for the game being a catastrophe.
show-me-morpheus.gif


I can't seem to find any of those. They'd be on this same board, right? Let's take a look-see.
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Nope, not on the first page. Maybe the surge of activity surrounding this thread and the one I locked bumped one onto the second page?
xUSv9HU.png
Oh look! There is an appreciation post on the second page, but it's for Bloc. Understandable. Maybe you're referencing something a bit older, though. I'll keep looking.
2z8QScX.png
Well, this isn't baseball but I still think three strikes is enough. Also we got another thread boosting Bloc at the bottom there, so at least we're ending our search on a positive note.

You might think I cherry-picked a board when looking for these ubiquitous appreciation posts you mention, but I assure you I checked more than one. I found a thread titled Patch 1.7.3 will be great on the third page of the SP board, but I regret to inform you it was not actually an appreciation post. The OP was less than earnest (or am I not supposed to decide that still?), and the creator was banned shortly after for saying TW spent all of their BL money on cocaine and the opportunity to fellate others.

Thank you for your sacrifice. It is among the greatest injustices of our century that all 150 of our South American comrades can't experience the atrocity that is Bannerlord MP with acceptable ping.
You joined this forum in 2021, so I forgive your ignorance of the fact that South America's competitive Warband scene was on the rise while North America and Europe were tapering off. They had enough players formed into enough teams to run sizeable tournaments internally, which means they were large enough to warrant consideration by TW for BL servers. What bothers me most about the situation is that they actually want to play BL but have no servers, while the two main server regions (NA and EU) are ghost towns. It's the easiest win for TW and they won't take it. Still, at least TW isn't condescending in their few posts about the issue. Imagine being the guy coming in second to TW on the South America response.
 

TengriBless

Veteran
Inappropriate behavior
Why? Because I moderate this forum. If I was unable to determine what a user's intentions were, every post in every thread would be left as-is while I sat here frozen in indecision.
Moderating to you means carrying out punishment on skewed interpretations of statements? Or is it roling the dice on every statement to figure out the motive behind it? Determining intention is different from picking one out of a hat.
Likewise, when someone suggests that the company is so woefully incompetent and bassackwards in their decision-making that they are undeserving of their own property, which they themselves made, and says as much in their post, it's hard to take that in good faith. Who on Earth genuinely believes that a third party with no knowledge of the code base, no familiarity with the engine, and no experience working on titles like this (as you know there are still no others in this niche except those licensed by TW), would somehow improve the development process or timeline? It's asinine. Plus, from the perspective of an outside company, it would be an investment not in this product, but in future products for the IP. The majority of Bannerlord sales have likely already been made. There's likely only the loss of continued development costs left to be made with a small bump of sales on the official release day. The sensible thing then would be to push a couple stability patches on BL, call it release-ready, and start working on the next title. There's no reason an outside company would actually shoulder the burden of meaningfully changing the direction of BL.
There is no indication of ill will for you to make that decision, throughout the post you can easily deduct his want for the game to turn out well and he's putting forward reasoning that you can argue with but at no one stage has he demonstrated this malice you propose as being the chief cause of the thread's locking. The arguments you make and the counter-arguments for them belong in the discussion you prematurely ended, which is why they're not going to be argued on here, the nonsensical grounds on which you made that decision is what my post is about. Locking a thread is a last resort to be taken when there is no doubt as to the intents of his actions, that's obviously not the case here, and you didn't do anything to change that. Your unjustifiable course of action was biased and based on a weak and probably unfounded perception of ill-intent. The right way to go about this, if you're so bent on "making him for it" as some genus of moderator tends to be, is to ask, right? Engage in dialogue? Raise the same points you raised to me here and gage his reaction. This is human communication 101 but I suppose evolution missed out on a lineage or two of humans. Sick and tired of moderators' first reaction nearly always being their first instinct - who cares how flimsy the reasoning is? Who'll bother to argue? If you're so concerned about being drowned in uncertainty that you would rather delude yourself in prejudices instead of adequately addressing each problem on its own merit, then you're not a good moderator - in the ethical sense anyway, I'm sure your little "career" will benefit from it.
Who knows, maybe the next guy littering his post with racial slurs and pornography is doing it satirically. Who am I to decide that his post isn't intended to be comical?
Don't be daft. Would you trust yourself to moderate in any human interaction if you didn't believe yourself to possess what is colloquially known as "people skills"? How many situations have you been in where the intent in use of obscenities wasn't as clear as day after even a single question of clarification? Besides, what does it matter to you the intent behind someone's use racial slurs and pornography? Don't you pride yourself on having a zero tolerance policy on the likes?
I recognize this as bait, but just because it's convenient at this time to demonstrate otherwise, here's a recent thread of a moderator's thoughts on the current state of MP. Tell me again how our job is to protect TW from any criticism & kiss ass. Should I dig up some of my own posts or threads as well?
It's not an absolute statement (see "if"), and I didn't that insinuate every moderator took to that sort of behaviour or that it was in the job description. But the logic stands sound that certain actions as moderator will do more to garner favour from you-know-who than others. It's not a secret that Erminas stands as the paragon of this shameless manner of moderating. Comment critically against a staff member or the game and suddenly all the punishments are enforced with an unnecessary and absurd strictness.
I can't seem to find any of those.
Cute. It must be a terrible inconvenience for those with the memory life of a goldfish but I remember a time before the forum's attendance rates had taken a dive down to floor level and "appreciation posts" were monthly to bimonthly occurrences. Sinking level of attention to be gotten correlates with sinking numbers of trolls and troll posts, who figures! The search bar does wonders by the way, in case you want to walk further down that road and divert from the main point of the post.
You joined this forum in 2021, so I forgive your ignorance of the fact that South America's competitive Warband scene was on the rise while North America and Europe were tapering off. They had enough players formed into enough teams to run sizeable tournaments internally, which means they were large enough to warrant consideration by TW for BL servers. What bothers me most about the situation is that they actually want to play BL but have no servers, while the two main server regions (NA and EU) are ghost towns. It's the easiest win for TW and they won't take it. Still, at least TW isn't condescending in their few posts about the issue. Imagine being the guy coming in second to TW on the South America response.
Been here longer than 2021 but also never cared for the competitive side myself, maybe that's why I'm not on the know when it comes to what playerbases are flourishing in which continent. My point is it may be more prudent to ask for a good game first so our South Americans don't get on the game with good connection only to find out the game is still about as flopped now that there's no other excuse for the awfulness. Warband is still a superior multiplayer experience, that's the real crime.
 
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MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Who knows, maybe the next guy littering his post with racial slurs and pornography is doing it satirically. Who am I to decide that his post isn't intended to be comical?
Hey, gay porn was supposed to be comical and it was early, tasteful gay porn, not the pure filth they are making these days, as you well know.
Likewise, when someone suggests that the company is so woefully incompetent and bassackwards in their decision-making that they are undeserving of their own property, which they themselves made, and says as much in their post, it's hard to take that in good faith.
Think of it as social services coming to get your kid because you were inept at making a good human being out of it, while you were still able to pop it out in the first place. So this "it's theirs, they can do what they want with it, deal with it" argument is not in the spirit of our collective best interest and it's certainly not good for the baby.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
Cute. It must be a terrible inconvenience for those with the memory life of a goldfish but I remember a time before the forum's attendance rates had taken a dive down to floor level and "appreciation posts" were monthly to bimonthly occurrences. Sinking level of attention to be gotten correlates with sinking numbers of trolls and troll posts, who figures! The search bar does wonders by the way, in case you want to walk further down that road and divert from the main point of the post.
Oh good heavens, there was an appreciation post on a bi-monthly basis!!! How could anyone ever deal with something like that!!! Clearly the devs are showing those posts unwarranted support instead of the threads that call them incompetent and tell them to sell their own IP!!!
 

Senko

Sergeant
The thread offered nothing, it literally was just "come here Taleworlds, it's time for another thrashing".
Suggesting to someone they should commit sudoku is not really a suggestion :3
 
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