• If you are reporting a bug, please head over to our Technical Support section for Bannerlord.
  • Please note that we've updated the Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord save file system which requires you to take certain steps in order for your save files to be compatible with e1.7.1 and any later updates. You can find the instructions here.

Are Workshops even worth it? (Response to pottery nerf)

Users who are viewing this thread

YariAshigaru

Recruit
My wool weavery workshop in Lycaron from my old save make a hefty 0 income per day, so probably not I guess.
Though, I tried changing it to other workshop like tannery and it's still not doing much better. I don't know if it's because of war stagnation or what but it just seem so unreliable most of the time. I probably will complete that playthrough way before it will pay for itself.

My friend said that Pen canoc potterry can generate pretty good income(around 500~ which don't seem that op tbh) but they already nerf that, so brewery is probably next on the chopping block.

Also I didn't know if they fix it yet but you can lose your workshop permanently if your faction are going to war with the faction that have you'r workshop city as their property. Which mean it's not really a safe passive income either unless you're on natural playthrough which is not possible if you want to progress the main quest.

Huh is that how that works because i have had workshops disappear on me before I had assumed it was due to the town being taken over by an enemy faction. So early on i started only opening shops in factions i wanted to be a part of.

And yeah at this point i think every workshop is about to be hit with a nerf.
 

YariAshigaru

Recruit
This is a pretty good point actually, while workshops are meant to be the super safe but low income alternative to the higher risk but higher income caravans, in reality I found that I lost workshops due to random wars way more often than I ever lost caravans before today's patch.

Yeah, caravans before this recent kill caravans patch made 1.5k or even 2k ive seen, way more than workshops. But in general workshops give so little there is no reason to even invest 15k into it. Your better off spending that 15k on just bum rushing the best units to grease your war economy faster. Consume to survive because you no stable income even taxes dont give much unless you own tons of land or employ only T3 units into your army Quantity v.s Quality.
 

Bramborough

Veteran
Between the pottery workshop & caravan changes, it seems pretty clear that they are trying to curtail player income...for some mystifying reason.

I just don't understand why they're doing so. Feels like they're trying to fix a "problem" that isn't really there. Or if it is, then it's certainly far down the priority list and they ought to be focusing on other things. Shrug.
 
Between the pottery workshop & caravan changes, it seems pretty clear that they are trying to curtail player income...for some mystifying reason.

I just don't understand why they're doing so. Feels like they're trying to fix a "problem" that isn't really there. Or if it is, then it's certainly far down the priority list and they ought to be focusing on other things. Shrug.
Exactly what I'm confused by and that's been making me steadily more cynical about their dev team. There just seems to be no reasonable reason to actually nerf what they've been nerfing. The amazing thing is that they buffed fighting other lords in this patch since prices for higher quality items skyrocketed. Now you can quite literally spend ten or more hours slowly grinding to the point at which you can fight a lord, then suddenly you make factors more money than you made in the entire early game after beating a single lord.

I'm confused, they say they're concerned with players having too much money in the late-game, but their response to it has been to massively nerf every way to make money in the early game while actually buffing the primary cause of money snowballing. It feels like what they're actually concerned with is not how much money people make but how they're playing the game, and if that's the case, why even implement trade, passive income from workshops, etc. in the first place?
 

YariAshigaru

Recruit
Exactly what I'm confused by and that's been making me steadily more cynical about their dev team. There just seems to be no reasonable reason to actually nerf what they've been nerfing. The amazing thing is that they buffed fighting other lords in this patch since prices for higher quality items skyrocketed. Now you can quite literally spend ten or more hours slowly grinding to the point at which you can fight a lord, then suddenly you make factors more money than you made in the entire early game after beating a single lord.

I'm confused, they say they're concerned with players having too much money in the late-game, but their response to it has been to massively nerf every way to make money in the early game while actually buffing the primary cause of money snowballing. It feels like what they're actually concerned with is not how much money people make but how they're playing the game, and if that's the case, why even implement trade, passive income from workshops, etc. in the first place?

Agreed, the real profits come in the form of beating armies and selling gear, huzzah for the war economy. But they are just straight up murdering every early game ways of making money. They've essentially made early game a massive pain in the ass to grind but once ur able to reliably beat lords on the field you just instantly skyrocket back to where you would be had things just stayed the same pre-nerf. There is no point currently in investing into any sort of workshop/caravan. Just dump all that money into making an army that can just shove lords into the dirt and take their lunch money.

In 1 file I made an army comprised of only Elite Cataphracts and had no issues with money, who cares if you lose a castle or city when they give so little in terms of money that you can just hunt down the remnants of the attacking army and make bank.
 

Bramborough

Veteran
but their response to it has been to massively nerf every way to make money in the early game while actually buffing the primary cause of money snowballing.

Great point. I'd seen the individual pieces of this, but hadn't really connected the dots in the way you articulated. Curiouser and curiouser.

who cares if you lose a castle or city when they give so little in terms of money that you can just hunt down the remnants of the attacking army and make bank.

Yep. At first I'd get a castle (or even just faction taking a castle), and I'd think "okay, gotta go defend that. Gotta get a garrison together. Gotta build up militia. Buff up the walls!". Now I think "Oh cool, bait! Some army is gonna come sniffing around that place soon!". I don't really care any more if they take the castle first or not.
 

YariAshigaru

Recruit
Great point. I'd seen the individual pieces of this, but hadn't really connected the dots in the way you articulated. Curiouser and curiouser.



Yep. At first I'd get a castle (or even just faction taking a castle), and I'd think "okay, gotta go defend that. Gotta get a garrison together. Gotta build up militia. Buff up the walls!". Now I think "Oh cool, bait! Some army is gonna come sniffing around that place soon!". I don't really care any more if they take the castle first or not.

Yep, and now i always start a siege on some random castle because the AI will always come to defend it and usually the smaller and weaker lords arrive first so you get to have a buffet of ez pz fights until the main army slowly comes lumbering on by in which case you just run away.
 
Well they aren't safe all, I was with West Emp and bought a workshop in a city of the khuzaits, very far trip, since they were far and not at war.

Less than a week lather war brokers between the factions mention above and I lost my workshop and 15000 dennars.

And when a city is captured we lost them, so they are 100% safe.
 

YariAshigaru

Recruit
Well they aren't safe all, I was with West Emp and bought a workshop in a city of the khuzaits, very far trip, since they were far and not at war.

Less than a week lather war brokers between the factions mention above and I lost my workshop and 15000 dennars.

And when a city is captured we lost them, so they are 100% safe.

Thats true, although i heard that, that was a glitch or bug? if it is then perhaps itll be ok sort've like in Warband your shops in warring factions were Sequestered. But if its not a bug then yeah in 1 of my comments in the thread i mentioned i only invested into shops into the faction i was a part of and paid attention as to when enemy armies march by. You can sell your workshop for a smaller loss before the enemy army takes over the city and hippidy hoppidy your workshop is now my property.
 
They need to bring back the feature where the seller would tell you what your profit margins can be expected to look like before you set up shop.

My first purchase was a tannery in Battania. It yielded a profit of 16 denars a day and peaked at around 47 denars a day.

I never bothered to buy a shop again.
 

YariAshigaru

Recruit
They need to bring back the feature where the seller would tell you what your profit margins can be expected to look like before you set up shop.

My first purchase was a tannery in Battania. It yielded a profit of 16 denars a day and peaked at around 47 denars a day.

I never bothered to buy a shop again.

Yeaaah, even if you select a workshop in a city that provides the raw material the revenue could be utter ****. my experience with this is in Jaculan, it has 2 olive producing villages but u wont make **** at all with an olive oil press workshop.
 

Orkmann

Recruit
Pottery is not that great anymore, but ironmongers are still producing 200-300 denars in my game.

What really botheres me is that you lose the workshop once in war with the city's faction. But otherwise I would not mind a bit of nerf in income. The ideal would be to have a more balanced (eg most workshop with local resources could make some money), but lower income.
 

Nordmann

Sergeant Knight
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Between the pottery workshop & caravan changes, it seems pretty clear that they are trying to curtail player income...for some mystifying reason.

I just don't understand why they're doing so. Feels like they're trying to fix a "problem" that isn't really there. Or if it is, then it's certainly far down the priority list and they ought to be focusing on other things. Shrug.

Classic TaleWorlds I'm afraid. We saw the same thing during Warband's development, with far too much time being spent on reducing player earning potential, and not enough time on actual balance issues beyond the economy. :cautious:
 
Devs want us all to use the DeveloperConsole it seems. :mrgreen:

They nerf everything that give us money so...
Yeah they do that because late game money was not an issue anymore, why should the game throw money at you for freegetting a workshop that nets you 100 denars every day is basically free money, because you don't have to do anything for it.
 

Melforne

Recruit
Yeah they do that because late game money was not an issue anymore, why should the game throw money at you for freegetting a workshop that nets you 100 denars every day is basically free money, because you don't have to do anything for it.
So, you're suppose to lose money for your invesment? :unsure:
 

iimstevo

Regular
Yeah, all my workshops have their raw material sourced from villages nearby as well as being in cities with high prosperity >5k. My brewery which makes 189 denars in a good day has 2 villages supplying the town with grain in a city with 5.7k prosperity BUT i have a wool workshop in a city with 2.4k prosperity with 1 village supplying it with wool and it makes 260 on a good day. The guide for looking at raw material prices in the city and what the villages supply the city only get you so far.

Things are wack

They are out of sync... the benefit of a workshop is it doesn't get raided. Caravans can be raided, and require a companion to support them. I don't know if its linked or not, but I did notice that running a caravan from the city you have a workshop in also boosts the income of the workshop.
 
So, you're suppose to lose money for your invesment? :unsure:
If you buy workshops in the wrong place where raw goods are expensive price for the trade good is low, yes.
Imagine if in real life, every investment was guaranteed to be profitable, money would lose its meaning.
You should not be able to finance your warmongering with 5 workshops and some odd caravans, maintaining an army was(and is) hugely expensive. Also what's the point of bandits if they don't harass caravans and hurt the economy(although I agree it needs tweaking?)
 

Melforne

Recruit
If you buy workshops in the wrong place where raw goods are expensive price for the trade good is low, yes.
Imagine if in real life, every investment was guaranteed to be profitable, money would lose its meaning.
You should not be able to finance your warmongering with 5 workshops and some odd caravans, maintaining an army was(and is) hugely expensive. Also what's the point of bandits if they don't harass caravans and hurt the economy(although I agree it needs tweaking?)
Well, it should be like that but for me it's not. Last I check my workshop's city have raw materials for them to use but they seem to not generating any income at all, there aren't any siege going on either and I literally hunt down all the bandit around the city too.
It's always seem so random if they'll profitable or not and there aren't any tutorial or rule to read if there are anything will affect your workshop income too. It's look more like a gamble than an investment to me.

Same goes for caravan. It's either get obliterate before it pay for itself(Which increased to 18000, mind you) or be profitable which take quite a bit of time so you're likely going to lose your money than profit from it, which probably not intended by Dev in the lastest patch.

Most people are just playing game for fun, if the workshop or caravan are more interactable then it can be interesting and fun experience even if it's can failed but a gamble where the odds are seemingly stack against you is just not fun. There are not a lot of player that will suffering from their success.
 
Top Bottom