Are there any plans to 'declutter' the campaign map?

Users who are viewing this thread

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
The campaign map was, I think, very hastily altered before release to add more 'choke points' and "interesting terrain". What it really did was make almost 1/3 of the map literally inaccessible, there is a mountain on every corner and every place quite literally feels the same. I was playing Warband today and was in awe of how the Rhodok mountains actually felt as if they are a real mountain range instead of someone messing around with the campaign map to make it interesing before release.

So, I have a few suggestions as to what to do to make the campaign map more enjoyable and I hope some of the people here will find it agreeable:

1. Town and castle icons, while detailed, need to be a bit smaller. This method od making cities on the map (complex models instead of icons) reminds me of Rome 2 and it's obnoxiously large cities that made the campaign map feel like its a meter in width, and not a whole Europe. A sense of vastness in Warband was in Bannerlord replaced by a surprisingly crowded atmosphere.

2. Mist and darker colours. Yes, Warband had mist. And it was actually a really helpful tool in setting the atmosphere of a place. Aserai and Khuzait lands are better in this regard but even in the winter season the campaign map is bright as hell.

3. Plains. Just plain open fields. Get rid of at least half the mountains please. The peninsula around Rovalt only has ONE NARROW STRIP OF ACCESSIBLE TERRAIN. Battania, Vlandia and Sturgia feel almost exactly the same, even though the height difference is huge. Right now it's not a campaign map, it's a huge set of tight hallways.

I hope this will not be brushed off by the team as 'the design choice has already been made'. This map NEEDS decluttering, and I sincerely suggest returning to the old map design that we had before release. Please.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Agreed, the only thing i like of this new map compared to the previous one is the expanded waterways that could be used in a naval expansion/dlc, all rest looks just unnatural and obviously there to create choke-points but it makes the map just silly like MOBA lanes or something.

Look at the real passable map of Bannerlord and despair:
kyNXs.jpg
 
I guess if map was to be streched to make it bigger so cities and towns were to be traveled some days not several hours while on the other hand not streching mountains could flaten this too "scared" landscape perhaps making just some mountains "big" with chokepoints like RL map might suggest.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
Agreed, the only thing i like of this new map compared to the previous one is the expanded waterways that could be used in a naval expansion/dlc, all rest looks just unnatural and obviously there to create choke-points but it makes the map just silly like MOBA lanes or something.

Look at the real passable map of Bannerlord and despair:
kyNXs.jpg

Right with you. I absolutely hate all the chokepoints and channeling of movement. I would really like to see more open maps where I don't have to zig zag around everywhere. I mean in some cases it does make sense but there is just too much of it going on.

Maybe eventually modders will be able to make some cool and interesting maps.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Right with you. I absolutely hate all the chokepoints and channeling of movement. I would really like to see more open maps where I don't have to zig zag around everywhere. I mean in some cases it does make sense but there is just too much of it going on.

Maybe eventually modders will be able to make some cool and interesting maps.
A few choke-points here and there would be interesting but not the entire map being made about them.

I find that middle lake in Battania interesting for example but the map has so many goddamn choke-points that it takes away from the places that should be unique.

I remember the Rhodok highlands for example cause they were unique in warband, i always dreaded going there on low levels because of the bandits who could easily trap you in the mountains with multiple parties.

There was also the open plains of Dhirim that had some cliffs to the west of the city that lords always used to trap each other.

The mountain passes between kherjit and vaegir territory, the forests of western Swadia full of forest bandits etc

The map was abit on the bland side but it had some memorable places since it was more believable.
 

LevonVeldspar

Sergeant at Arms
Couldn't disagree more, I love being able to use terrain to corral and trap faster parties or perform pincer attacks. Warband's map is a few islands of interesting geography in a sea of featureless and mostly empty flatness. Bannerlord's map still has plenty of open areas but I think the overall higher density of obstructions and locations makes each region feel more unique.
 

Pensaci

Sergeant
I think it abit imitates the geographical feature of like today's Turkey and Iran.

Kinda agreed. It feels unnatural and way too narrow, making the map feels like small boxes linked to each other. If Warband is too vast, Bannerlord is the opposed extreme.

This is a part of "snowballing" as well imo. Like for example Sturgia is separated by a single channel, Aserai is isolated by two obvious choke points.

But tbh I can already see many of the posts. And this is one of those aspect modders can touch significantly, true. And we did see changes on map can have many effects. If any this probably be in their 'Polish phase', which is for better of worse not here yet.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
I hope this will not be brushed off by the team as 'the design choice has already been made'. This map NEEDS decluttering, and I sincerely suggest returning to the old map design that we had before release. Please.

I hope they brush this off as a subjective opinion that doesn't represent everyone.

I like the choke points, the castle/town icons, like the colour palette, think that there are plenty of open plains - particularly in the empire, Asari and Khuzait lands. I hope they don't change too much about these aspects.

I'd rather the developers work on bugs and core functionality. If they were going to do anything to maps, I'd like zones of control where you can't pass castles without risking being attacked by them - that way they would have purpose. Otherwise I think the map is great.
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
Agreed, the only thing i like of this new map compared to the previous one is the expanded waterways that could be used in a naval expansion/dlc, all rest looks just unnatural and obviously there to create choke-points but it makes the map just silly like MOBA lanes or something.

Look at the real passable map of Bannerlord and despair:
kyNXs.jpg
yeah, its a straight up labyrinth. The map's never felt natural to me. Traveling through some areas is just feels unpleasant to me. I long for a few wide open plains.
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I hope they brush this off as a subjective opinion that doesn't represent everyone.

I like the choke points, the castle/town icons, like the colour palette, think that there are plenty of open plains - particularly in the empire, Asari and Khuzait lands. I hope they don't change too much about these aspects.

I'd rather the developers work on bugs and core functionality. If they were going to do anything to maps, I'd like zones of control where you can't pass castles without risking being attacked by them - that way they would have purpose. Otherwise I think the map is great.
Oh yes dont get me wrong I like the icons too. They really breathe life into the map! Retrospectively I think a comparison to Rome 2 icons was a bit unfortunate, as I do like those in Bannerlord. My point was just that they sometimes make the countryside feel small.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
I hope they brush this off as a subjective opinion that doesn't represent everyone.

I like the choke points, the castle/town icons, like the colour palette, think that there are plenty of open plains - particularly in the empire, Asari and Khuzait lands. I hope they don't change too much about these aspects.

I'd rather the developers work on bugs and core functionality. If they were going to do anything to maps, I'd like zones of control where you can't pass castles without risking being attacked by them - that way they would have purpose. Otherwise I think the map is great.
Honestly I would settle for good modding tools in regard to map development. I don't see many map mods at all out and I believe I read somewhere that the modding tools for maps haven't be release yet which might explain why so few map mods. I mean I am perfectly find using a Mod that opens up the map to fit my personal preference so you can also experience what you personally prefer.
 

Senko

Sergeant
Traveling around northern Sturgia really isn't fun. But the map is final and i don't have to visit Sturgia if i don't want to :p
I'm more disappointed that we only have 1 training field thus we always spawn in the southern Empire when the games starts no matter what culture you choose. That's really lame.
Also all those islands are just a wasted opportunity - we easily could have had a neutral trading city on there or something :3
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
I join the conversation as I can say that I have spoken at length on the subject. I want to be clear about my stance regarding the current map, in my eyes it is interesting both in terms of gameplay and artistic concept; far superior to its predecessors. That said, I also think the map needs some tweaking, indeed; I have personally given feedback on it.

As for the OP's points.

1. I agree that the scale could be reduced "just a little bit more" (maybe 15%) to get the map in order to generate a sense of more vastness of territory. Also, I have commented directly to the devs about applying more "beautification" to the map and in particular to the villages. The relocation of Sargot is necessary (there is also a comment in that thread talking about it and how it could be done from my point of view). The answer was that it is a task they had already considered as "TO-DO" and they will work on it no doubt.

Sin_titulo-1.jpg

2. Regarding the fog issue. Interestingly enough, I recently opened this thread where I conducted a series of tests. While it is true that in my opinion the colour could be slightly bumped up to make it more vibrant, the fog, in my eyes, also produces that bleached out effect of " smog " in the foreground, hindering a natural performance of the fog as a defining agent of atmospheric perspective. The last test was this one:



3. Finally, also in this thread, I had the pleasure to discuss with other users what kind of orography changes could be a solution to gameplay problems. I personally contributed documentation on biomes and the result of that and the search for a map halfway between what was Warband and the current Bannerlord, in my opinion, could be something like this:

frMzw.jpg

Sorry for the wild spam :lol: , however from time to time I like to dust off material in new threads created by other users. That's basically what I think :lol:
 

Akka

Sergeant
I absolutely despise Bannerlord map (probably the single worst element of the entire game to me), and precisely because of what the OP said.
So yeah, I completely concur. Please use the previous version of the map again, and massively open the map.
As it is, it feels like a constricted dungeon with rooms connected by narrow corridor, rather than actual under-the-sky terrain.
 

Pensaci

Sergeant
I join the conversation as I can say that I have spoken at length on the subject. I want to be clear about my stance regarding the current map, in my eyes it is interesting both in terms of gameplay and artistic concept; far superior to its predecessors. That said, I also think the map needs some tweaking, indeed; I have personally given feedback on it.

As for the OP's points.

1. I agree that the scale could be reduced "just a little bit more" (maybe 15%) to get the map in order to generate a sense of more vastness of territory. Also, I have commented directly to the devs about applying more "beautification" to the map and in particular to the villages. The relocation of Sargot is necessary (there is also a comment in that thread talking about it and how it could be done from my point of view). The answer was that it is a task they had already considered as "TO-DO" and they will work on it no doubt.

Sin_titulo-1.jpg

2. Regarding the fog issue. Interestingly enough, I recently opened this thread where I conducted a series of tests. While it is true that in my opinion the colour could be slightly bumped up to make it more vibrant, the fog, in my eyes, also produces that bleached out effect of " smog " in the foreground, hindering a natural performance of the fog as a defining agent of atmospheric perspective. The last test was this one:



3. Finally, also in this thread, I had the pleasure to discuss with other users what kind of orography changes could be a solution to gameplay problems. I personally contributed documentation on biomes and the result of that and the search for a map halfway between what was Warband and the current Bannerlord, in my opinion, could be something like this:

frMzw.jpg

Sorry for the wild spam :lol: , however from time to time I like to dust off material in new threads created by other users. That's basically what I think :lol:
This reminds me how many good points has already been made..Sadge

By the way, what happened to this map? seems to be an early version, yet not only with Sargot in place, many aspects make much more sense. I do like current shoreline better though, and this clearly feels very early and rough.
NMtvXQy.png

How did this map change into the map we have today?

The more and more I feel like there was a timeline change somewhere in 2019.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
The explanation could be (or I think it is a plausible argument), the change from this one you mention to the current new one was articulated for a "better" implementation of a "hypothetical" naval combat and transport system. The new one, with some slight adjustments, is much better for that purpose imho. I imagined something like this as "naval scenario" :lol: :

-oLwf.jpg

(source)
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
The explanation could be (or I think it is a plausible argument), the change from this one you mention to the current new one was articulated for a "better" implementation of a "hypothetical" naval combat and transport system. The new one, with some slight adjustments, is much better for that purpose imho. I imagined something like this as "naval scenario" :lol: :

-oLwf.jpg

(source)
Ah. Balion, Geroia, Zendar... Names I haven't referenced in a while. I really miss that
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
This reminds me how many good points has already been made..Sadge

By the way, what happened to this map? seems to be an early version, yet not only with Sargot in place, many aspects make much more sense. I do like current shoreline better though, and this clearly feels very early and rough.
NMtvXQy.png

How did this map change into the map we have today?

The more and more I feel like there was a timeline change somewhere in 2019.
Not only does this map makes more sense, the lore was written when they used it still, look how Pendraic castle is in the border of the empire instead of the other side of the map or how settlements are in their rightful place (sargot coof coof), even the lorebits in the villages were written for this map and only recently they addressed it in a patch.
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Not only does this map makes more sense, the lore was written when they used it still, look how Pendraic castle is in the border of the empire instead of the other side of the map or how settlements are in their rightful place (sargot coof coof), even the lorebits in the villages were written for this map and only recently they addressed it in a patch.
Yes. The only thing I suggested on this map was adding more castles.

Also, the western Aserai lands were actually used. Lmao.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
Yes. The only thing I suggested on this map was adding more castles.

Also, the western Aserai lands were actually used. Lmao.
You should look into Calradia Expanded. It adds a ton of towns and castles to the map and does actually make use of quite a bit of the open spaces of the game map. There still is quite a bit of room to the SE and South of the map though and I would love to see 2 more factions added in these areas. It would be nice if Tale worlds added them official but I expect it will have to come from some mod or another.
 
Top Bottom