Are spears REALLY effective against horses

[shades_o_grey]

I've been running a few tests, (picking fights with cavalry heavy enemy parties, I mean ) with rhodok spears, misc nord and vaegir infantry, and the rhodoks do no better in the initial charge than the other infantry. Every time they absorb the charge, all I see is line of text telling me they were knocked out cold, with a horse or two dead. Is it hard coded into the game, or are we just assuming spears are more effective because they are in real life?

 

[Magorian Aximand]

Most people aren't assuming that the Rhodoks fair any better. The AI simply can't use spears effectively enough to make any kind of difference.

 

[ComingWinter]

I have a few Rhodok spearman/vetran spearman. I find that if I group them together tight together, any horseman that run into them suddenly face a ball of spears with my swordsmen in between. The AI spearman usually form a line, which make them less effective against cavalry and mounted archers that are picking them off from the distance.

 

[Scyrius]

When you are using them yes but if with ai then no

 

[shades_o_grey]

Can someone show us the file where the game gives spears a bonus vs cavalry, because in test after test, I am seeing no difference between an axe, a sword and a spear. If anything, the axe is faring the best of the three. I even tried pikemen vs. knights in TEaTRC, and got a screen full of dead pikemen.

 

[ComingWinter]

Ask TheMageLord, if there's one person who knows, it'll be him.

 

[Scyrius]

My reasoning would be that polearms (spears) have the longest reach and powerful thrust which when done right can stop a horse therefor spears are good against Calvary

but I would say one should stop the horse with the spear and then switch to a sword or axe to finish of the rider

 

[rhalle]

Rhodok Sergeants.  End of story.

Spears may suck against horses (or the spearman AI, I guess-- piercing damage is good against the horses themselves), but the Rhodok Sergeants who spawn with banded armor and glaives are downright nasty, particularly against cavalry-- they have quick footwork, long melee range and high damage. 

And they have good armor and hit points if they get charged.

If you want foot soldiers on the battlefield full of cavalry, get some of them and bait the enemy cavalry through a pack of them and enjoy the lines of green __________ was killed by Rhodok Sergeant text.

In fact, I'd say that that's the one thing any Rhodok unit is uniquely good at; they have no horses, Vaegirs are better archers than Sharpshooters, Huscarls are better infantry on offense or defense against other footsoldiers.

But the Sergeants (the good ones with glaives, anyway) can chop down enemy cavalry better than any other unit in the game.
 

 

[Heresy]

If you are fighting on your own though (or just ordering your troops to stay back for a while), you'll notice that a pike is far better than a butchering knife if you get charged by enemy cavalry. Just time your thrust so that you hit the poor horse with full pike extension in the chest. It will always die or at least recoil, and let you move in for the kill. Same thing can be done with two handed swords too, but with a bit of more maneuvering.

 

[del_diablo]

I find that if I group them together tight together, any horseman that run into them suddenly face a ball of spears with my swordsmen in between.

Anybody on a horse that rides into a solid ball of units will die, they will just be ganked down. So it is a non-valid attempt on saying that spears works against horses.

 

[Redfyre]

It is ****ing obvious that a weapon with longer reach will be more effective against a guy on a horse. And since spears have a longer reach than a majority of other weapons... Guess what?
End of story. Stop denying the inevitable.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

Which is why pikes and the like were used in real life. However, we are not talking about real life. We're not even talking about player controlled characters. We're talking about normal, AI controlled troops. The fact of the matter is that spear wielding units are terrible. Rhodoks only get dangerous when you have Sergeants. The prerequisite troops are basically cannon fodder.

 

[Redfyre]

I will admit that the Nords seem to be better at annihilating charging cavalry better than any other faction.
Now if you play Multiplayer Warband... Almost 90% of the time if a good cavalryman is facing a good pike-user, the pike-user will win. Not that both players have the same skill levels.

 

[Magorian Aximand]

There is the difference between humans and computers. The OP was asking about troops, however, so that is the situation we're dealing with.

 

[Redfyre]

Well than I guess the NPC spearman tend to wait until the Horseman is stopped directly in front of him to actually thrust. This tends to get the "immedate stop" effect doing barely any damage. You see this happening in Tournaments with jousting lances all the time. Just two horseman stabbing point blank at each other doing little to no damage.
Now if the AI was improved to actually anticipate when the perfect moment to strike another NPC is than it may be a different story, but as of now they are rather stupid.

 

[ComingWinter]

Anybody on a horse that rides into a solid ball of units will die, they will just be ganked down. So it is a non-valid attempt on saying that spears works against horses.

That's not really true. I once had a group of lower level guys; footman, trained footman, recruits, militia and a handful of warriors and veterans. When a Khergit lord attacked me, I got my guys into a ball and rode out. The lancers tore through them like tissue paper, and the archers circled, picking off those on the outside. Needless to say, it wasn't pretty.
On the flip side, if I'm on my warhorse and my swadian knights are with me, I won't hesitate to run into a loose crowd of infantry. Even Rhodok spearmen and crossbowmen are no match for me and my knights coming in and breaking up a line, provided they aren't jam packed together and they aren't many sergeants. I've had them thrust right in front of my horse and absolutely kills a charge.
But MA is right; AI needs a good lesson in tactics. Spearmen and sergeants could inflict much more damage on cavalry if they were used to their full potential. 

 

[killer-blead]

I will admit that the Nords seem to be better at annihilating charging cavalry better than any other faction.

ghee must have been hard for you to admin that since you sided with the nords. 

 

[Redfyre]

Actually it was rather hard because I have actually played around with other factions and Nords do seem to be more effective at hacking down enemy horses.

 

[Lord barn]

personally id say best off with nords when dealing with cavalry, they are generally a prety hardcore bunch! rhodoks i find are just generally cannon fodder, sergents are fairly good but to get a whole army of them is a lot of hastle!

 

[Aesthetic]

I will admit that the Nords seem to be better at annihilating charging cavalry better than any other faction.
Now if you play Multiplayer Warband... Almost 90% of the time if a good cavalryman is facing a good pike-user, the pike-user will win. Not that both players have the same skill levels.

I hate you...

Haha, Weapons can be a deciding factor, but if you think about it strategy is much more important. Like a group of farmers can kill cavalry to the same effect as a group of warriors. Aslong as you use a couple of tactics, like staying on a hilltop to decrease horsemans charge and stay grouped together in a ball so the horses are hit with several weapons at a time.