Archery is the most OP thing in this game, and it makes the game supremely boring and one dimensional.

Which faction has the most OP archers?


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Surreal120

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVC
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Archery is OP. There really isn't any two ways about it.
  1. There is basically no arrow drop. The bows in this game might as well be guns. They are not only incredibly accurate, but they also have so little drop that there is basically no need to aim up unless you're shooting across the desert map. For this reason alone >30-50% of the skill in archery is gone.
  2. Shields are basically useless against archers. This problem can be extended to throwing weapons too. I understand shadow coverage being annoying, but foot and leg shots seem far to easy to hit. Even with the biggest shields like the Oathsworn and Heather shields being fairly easy to land leg shots on, its frankly ridiculous. This also means that cavalry is especially vulnerable as they often have small shields where their head, legs, and feet are entirely exposed; in couching stance, the entire right side of your body is completely exposed, meaning the only real option is to hold your shield up and cav bump them to death.
  3. Bows do way to much damage. This problem also highlights the problem with armor values being applied equally across the body. It is way to common to be one shot by bows and crossbows. It is understandable that low armor units are hit harder, but I have seen damage values of 70+ with one shot on heavy infantry units from standard bows with no movement speed variable. Mind you these weren't head shots, but standard body shots. It is completely ridiculous for a heavy infantry unit to lose 1/3 or even 1/2 of its health to an arrow in the body that because of poor shield coverage is unlikely to be blocked. This problem is once again highlighted with cav where the highest armored cav units can be one shot with standard bows.
  4. Horse Archers. There really isn't anything to be said here. Play the game for more then 20 mins and the problem is self evident. Horse archery is broken. The penalty for full gallop accuracy is way to small, with you being able to fairly reliably hit targets some distance away at full gallop. The problem is multiplied when you consider that the arrow also has the speed damage modifier attached, making it do stupid amounts of damage when it does hit. This problem really wouldn't be all that bad, if it wasn't for the fact that ANY archer unit in the game can mount ANY horse in the game and become a horse archer with 0 accuracy penalties.
  5. Crossbows. Oh crossbows, with damage output like you have, who needs a gun? Seriously, the arbalest perk is like using an AWP. The crossbow is really a culmination of everything wrong with archery. For starters it is way too strong. The crossbows are supposed to do more damage then regular bows, I get it, but at the moment they the crossbow is easily one of the most powerful things in the game only behind couch lances and pilas. They benefit from all of the strengths already listed (including being able to mount any horse) and make amplify them. Arrow drop is even more reduced, and the ability to instantly shoot them once theyre loaded without any kind of animation to bring it up is amusing at first, but annoying and ridiculously OP.

There are more problems with the fundamental nature of archery in this game, but at this point I would like to move onto the next section of my rant.

FactionInfantry/Archer ComparedPrice DifferenceRelevant perks for the ArcherNotes
EmpireLegionary/Palatine Guard140/150Improved armorIf the palatine guard chooses to take improved armor, they get the exact same armor value as a base legionary of 41. They also get the exact same sword meaning all they have to do is pick up a shield to become just as melee effective as a legionary. This means you basically get a base legionary with a bow for merely 10 more gold.
VlandiaSergeant/SharpshooterBoth 140Arbalest, Improved armor, Pavise ShieldFor the EXACT same amount of gold as the seargent, the sharpshooter has the choice between the most powerful ranged weapon in the game and an armor buff that brings them higher in armor then any infantry unit in the game besides 4. This combined with the best shiled in the game and a good sword makes the easily, in my opinion, the most OP unit in the enitre game. For a mere 140 gold.
BattaniaOathsword/Fiann140/160Improved armor, stronger longbowDespite being very expensive, the Fiann is still too strong for 160 to be a balanced price. Improved armor brings the unit to a staggering 38 armor, making it on par with the base Sargent and Varyag stats. The stronger longbow is also capable of enormous power only being bested by the Arbalest perk.
SturgiaVaryag/Hunter150/120NoneIn my opinion the only archer in the game that isnt OP, but if anything, is Underpowered. However I do think it is closer to what the archer class needs to be then any of the others. Low armor, bad melee, but a good bow. It just needs some buffs to the bow and some better perks.
KhuzaitSpear Infantry/Khan's Guard120/160Small Shield, MaceIn my opinion the most balanced archer class, but only because of a very cheap but effective infantry class. The Khan's Guard would render the Spear Infantry useless if the infantry wasn't so cheap, had a nice big shield, and didn't get access to a good mace.
AseraiTribal Wrrior/Veteran120/150Stronger Bow, Improved Armor, Small ShieldThe Aserai archer could have been on the same balance level as the Khan's Guard, if it wasn't for the aserai infantry being so terrible. Seriously the only reason to ever take aserai infantry over the Veteran is to jav spam, but even then, why jav spam when you can arrow spam with more armor and have the exact same shield and sword.

This is far from a comprehensive reasoning. I only barely touch on horse archers or how infantry is easily replaced in melee by archers. I just hope this can highlight some of the most glaring issues with archery and hopefully bring about some change, because at the moment there really is no reason not to spam archers. Its easy, its almost always practical, and once you do you'll wonder why infantry is even in the game to start with.
 
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drakanen

Veteran
M&BWBNW
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Archery is OP. There really isn't any two ways about it.
  1. There is basically no arrow drop. The bows in this game might as well be guns. They are not only incredibly accurate, but they also have so little drop that there is basically no need to aim up unless you're shooting across the desert map. For this reason alone >30-50% of the skill in archery is gone.
There is arrow drop but it's only a thing in first person. For some design reason they decided to make third person archery auto-correct for the arrow drop at almost every distance. If you shoot in first person you can see the massive difference between the two but even then it could still be a much bigger drop. A simple solution would be to remove the vertical aim correction option from settings, that is what auto-corrects in third person but it doesn't affect first person at all. I believe the arrow drop also differs for each bow in first person, some have a higher drop than others but in third that's pointless with the correction. It's a sad life being a first person shooter.
  1. Shields are basically useless against archers. This problem can be extended to throwing weapons too. I understand shadow coverage being annoying, but foot and leg shots seem far to easy to hit. Even with the biggest shields like the Oathsworn and Heather shields being fairly easy to land leg shots on, its frankly ridiculous. This also means that cavalry is especially vulnerable as they often have small shields where their head, legs, and feet are entirely exposed; in couching stance, the entire right side of your body is completely exposed, meaning the only real option is to hold your shield up and cav bump them to death.
I agree that most shields are too small and it is far too easy to hit infantry's feet and legs. The only issue I have with increasing shield sizes is the way taleworlds tend to do it, instead of making the shield physically bigger they increase the block radius to make it a force shield for some reason. Just increase the physical size of the shield, it helps everyone to know what part of the body is actually being protected by it. The cav shields themselves have massive force shields already which magically catch every shot from the front out of the air. Generally the only time I can hit a cav from the front is if they're couching from a distance, if they hold an attack it's a much harder shot. It's very easy for cav to get past that as well, they can hold their shield until they're a foot away from you then instantly switch to a couch and hit you with that. It's also risky to try and shoot a couching cav as if you miss your shot you're very likely to be one hit by the couch. A shot to generally only wound the rider in exchange for the risk of getting one hit by them.
  1. Bows do way to much damage. This problem also highlights the problem with armor values being applied equally across the body. It is way to common to be one shot by bows and crossbows. It is understandable that low armor units are hit harder, but I have seen damage values of 70+ with one shot on heavy infantry units from standard bows with no movement speed variable. Mind you these weren't head shots, but standard body shots. It is completely ridiculous for a heavy infantry unit to lose 1/3 or even 1/2 of its health to an arrow in the body that because of poor shield coverage is unlikely to be blocked. This problem is once again highlighted with cav where the highest armored cav units can be one shot with standard bows.
While it is fun to one shot people in the head with the longbow it is a broken amount of damage to be sure. I think overall bow damage should be lowered with the headshot multiplier slightly increased. Do less damage to regular body shots but higher damage on headshots to reward skill instead of rushing out shots as fast as you can. I don't really pay much attention to how much I shoot someone for but it seems like only the longbow does massive amounts of damage to the body, the rest of the bows generally do ~30-40 anywhere else on the body. I think if shield sizes are increased (physically, no force shields plz) to where they can block arrows more effectively the damage will be more balanced with how much harder the shots will be. I don't think the damage should be reduced to the point where heavy infantry can be porcupines and tank a dozen arrow shots, then you'll have the opposite issue of archers being useless.
  1. Horse Archers. There really isn't anything to be said here. Play the game for more then 20 mins and the problem is self evident. Horse archery is broken. The penalty for full gallop accuracy is way to small, with you being able to fairly reliably hit targets some distance away at full gallop. The problem is multiplied when you consider that the arrow also has the speed damage modifier attached, making it do stupid amounts of damage when it does hit. This problem really wouldn't be all that bad, if it wasn't for the fact that ANY archer unit in the game can mount ANY horse in the game and become a horse archer with 0 accuracy penalties.
100% agree with this. Remove horse archers from every faction except khuzait please.
  1. Crossbows. Oh crossbows, with damage output like you have, who needs a gun? Seriously, the arbalest perk is like using an AWP. The crossbow is really a culmination of everything wrong with archery. For starters it is way too strong. The crossbows are supposed to do more damage then regular bows, I get it, but at the moment they the crossbow is easily one of the most powerful things in the game only behind couch lances and pilas. They benefit from all of the strengths already listed (including being able to mount any horse) and make amplify them. Arrow drop is even more reduced, and the ability to instantly shoot them once theyre loaded without any kind of animation to bring it up is amusing at first, but annoying and ridiculously OP.
I've always thought the crossbows are way to strong, especially the arbalest. Very fast reloads for the insane damage output that they are capable of. It has an almost non-existent readying animation that feels like you shoot before it even finishes. With the arbalest especially you can kick someone and during that short stun time bring up the crossbow and one shot them in the head. You can do that with the other bows as well but it's not nearly as effective with none of the others being able to one shot and usually only doing 50-60 damage with it. The longbow is too slow for the kick stun to work with it. I think the damage should be reduced and the reload time increased by a second or two. Even in first person the bolt drop is much less than the bows and is more similar to shooting in third person with the drop only needing to be accounted for at a good distance away.

There are more problems with the fundamental nature of archery in this game, but at this point I would like to move onto the next section of my rant.

FactionInfantry/Archer ComparedPrice DifferenceRelevant perks for the ArcherNotes
EmpireLegionary/Palatine Guard140/150Improved armorIf the palatine guard chooses to take improved armor, they get the exact same armor value as a base legionary of 41. They also get the exact same sword meaning all they have to do is pick up a shield to become just as melee effective as a legionary. This means you basically get a base legionary with a bow for merely 10 more gold.

The palatine guard has way too much armor for an archer unit. The bow is decent and not overly strong or weak. It can hold itself in melee very well, just as much as a legionaire if you pick up a shield from the ground.
VlandiaSergeant/SharpshooterBoth 140Arbalest, Improved armor, Pavise ShieldFor the EXACT same amount of gold as the seargent, the sharpshooter has the choice between the most powerful ranged weapon in the game and an armor buff that brings them higher in armor then any infantry unit in the game besides 4. This combined with the best shiled in the game and a good sword makes the easily, in my opinion, the most OP unit in the enitre game. For a mere 140 gold.
This class is way too cheap for what you get with it. The ability to one shot every class in the head, good armor, and a great shield? The arbalest perk needs a nerf and the pavise shield needs a health reduction. At its current state it should be closer to 170 or 180 gold.
BattaniaOathsword/Fiann140/160Improved armor, stronger longbowDespite being very expensive, the Fiann is still too strong for 160 to be a balanced price. Improved armor brings the unit to a staggering 38 armor, making it on par with the base Sargent and Varyag stats. The stronger longbow is also capable of enormous power only being bested by the Arbalest perk.

The fiann I find has way too much armor for an archer unit. I get that it's the faction's specialty but that focus should be on the ranged combat, as it is with the longbow, and not on melee like it is with their 2 handed sword and armor. I think the price on this one is fine as it is but the first perk slot could use some changing, there's no real reason to pick the other two options over the longbow.
SturgiaVaryag/Hunter150/120NoneIn my opinion the only archer in the game that isnt OP, but if anything, is Underpowered. However I do think it is closer to what the archer class needs to be then any of the others. Low armor, bad melee, but a good bow. It just needs some buffs to the bow and some better perks.

I'm torn on this one. It has almost no armor and terrible melee like you'd expect from an archer and the bow is...meh. The better bow perk is a requirement if you play this class. The base unit is outclassed by infantry throwing weapons in every way.
KhuzaitSpear Infantry/Khan's Guard120/160Small Shield, MaceIn my opinion the most balanced archer class, but only because of a very cheap but effective infantry class. The Khan's Guard would render the Spear Infantry useless if the infantry wasn't so cheap, had a nice big shield, and did't get access to a good mace.

The khan's guard has decent armor for a heavy archer class and a good sword. The shield is pretty bad but it makes sense since it's an archer. All of the first perks are useless for me with only the second category being of any interest. I think the armor could be lower and the faster bow should be changed to a better bow. The first perk slot should honestly be a choice between being a better archer or a better infantry for every heavy archer unit. Stronger bow or a stronger melee weapon. Stay at a distance and shoot or get up in their faces and shoot at the risk of melee.
AseraiTribal Wrrior/Veteran120/150Stronger Bow, Improved Armor, Small ShieldThe Aserai archer could have been on the same balance level as the Khan's Guard, if it wasn't for the aserai infantry being so terrible. Seriously the only reason to ever take aserai infantry over the Veteran is to jav spam, but even then, why jav spam when you can arrow spam with more armor and have the exact same shield and sword.

The veteran is the aserai heavy infantry unit. It even comes with a nice little bow. Again the bow is average but the very high armor rating along with the shield perk make it the best infantry unit for the faction. The rest of the infantry are useless except for the throwing weapon spam they can do. Most sweaty games with aserai end up with three veterans and three heavy cav.

This is far from a comprehensive reasoning. I only barely touch on horse archers or how infantry is easily replaced in melee by archers. I just hope this can highlight some of the most glaring issues with archery and hopefully bring about some change, because at the moment there really is no reason not to spam archers. Its easy, its almost always practical, and once you do you'll wonder why infantry is even in the game to start with.

Overall I think heavy archer armor should be reduced and their melee skills worsened. The bow damage on some of them needs to be reduced and the sharpshooter nerfed. Another thing to add on is how accurate they are. You are near perfect accurate for a good long while when aiming your bow, allowing you to take your sweet sweet time lining up your shot. It should start accurate but quickly become inaccurate, forcing you to redraw your bow and risk missing a good shot opportunity. There also needs to be restrictions on what units can use or at least limits. Infantry should not be expert marksmen when they pick up a bow, archers should not be expert cavalrymen when they get on a horse. Being able to kick while holding the bow in the ready position should also be removed, it leads to very easy kick shots for a good ole headshot on a stunned infantryman. Just some of my current thoughts on archery as an archer main.
:xf-smile:
 

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
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I mean, all three classes need a rework, thats the only way to balance it. Cav is the most op thing, but archery is really op if the player can actually shoot (which is rare in bannerlord).
 

Surreal120

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVC
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I mean, all three classes need a rework, thats the only way to balance it. Cav is the most op thing, but archery is really op if the player can actually shoot (which is rare in bannerlord).
Yeah I do think cav is a bit too strong, but imo a good archer player makes a bigger difference then a good cav player vs other good players.
 

WhiteEyedSh4rk

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
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Archers beeing so strong wouldn't be a problem, if they wouldn't also be extremely well armored and could equip 2h weapons or shield (I'm talking about the better archers, like veteran, fian and so on). They seem to be effective against every other troop and have (unlike every other troop) no real weakness. They really should at least have a disatvantage in close combat, for example be less well armored or have no shields.
 

RDP

Sergeant
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The damage is fine, its less then warband... its the no arrow drop/fire rate/accurate shot timing and right click running making every archer a pro.
 

Shatti

Sergeant
WBWF&SNWVC
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infantry fights always get interrupted by a well accurate shots from everywhere,
they need to decrease the accuracy a little bit
-the damage and fire rate: i think it will be fair after that.
 
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Best answers
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There is arrow drop, and quite a lot of it from what I've seen, but taleworlds made the decision to have autoaim which automatically adjusts your firing angle based on where you're shooting, and then enable it by default.