Archers wont fire if theres Melee infront?

[Lightrend]

As soon as the battle begins,I place my archers on a high hill,and my infantry  about 20-30 paces further from them.If an archer is behind an infantry,he wont shoot even if it is certain that the arrow will not hit the infantry holding ground.(He could aim high with an angle and barrage from there).If I slip my archers sideways,thats is next to the infantry,they can fire.However they get trampled by cavalry.

Any suggestions/fix?

 

[Abriael]

Unfortunately archers are VERY conservative with friendly fire. They will fire only if they are a LOT higher than infantry ahead of them.

The best way to get around this is to put your archers actually in FRONT of your infantry (I know, it sounds crazy), order them to spread out a couple times, so that there is quite a bit of space between them and position your infantry immediately behind them. As the enemy gets in range, they'll fire very effectively since they have no one hindering their line of sight.
Try to gauge the advancing speed of the enemy to understand when they'll come in contact with your lines. A few seconds before that, order your infantry to Advance ten paces twice.
They'll immediately move orderly through the gaps between your archers and effectively meet the incoming enemy.

 

[Seawied86]

Unfortunately archers are VERY conservative with friendly fire. They will fire only if they are a LOT higher than infantry ahead of them.

The best way to get around this is to put your archers actually in FRONT of your infantry (I know, it sounds crazy), order them to spread out a couple times, so that there is quite a bit of space between them and position your infantry immediately behind them. As the enemy gets in range, they'll fire very effectively since they have no one hindering their line of sight.
Try to gauge the advancing speed of the enemy to understand when they'll come in contact with your lines. A few seconds before that, order your infantry to Advance ten paces twice.
They'll immediately move orderly through the gaps between your archers and effectively meet the incoming enemy.

well said!

 

[SirElric]

The best way to get around this is to put your archers actually in FRONT of your infantry (I know, it sounds crazy),

Well, it's not like putting archers and skirmishers in front of your main army hasn't been a perfectly reasonable tactic during most of history...

 

[Lightrend]

No It has been a perfect tactics for many civilizations such as for the british longbowman.Its not like I couldnt have thought of it,but this is what happens

1)Archers in front,scattered.Since they are Sarranid Archers in my case

a)Cav easily kills them by trampling
b)I lose my ranged units so quickly,since they will soak up most arrows which come at them with their weak armor.I would really like to keep infantry at front with their shield up.

2)I order infantry to advance paces.Apparently they are not clever enough to go through the space between,say,2 archers.He just tries to keept walking towards the archers back,therefore an infinite walk.He just walks towards him forever but I have seen some clever men aswell,who actually decide to use that space after being stuck for a couple of minutes.Therefore Infantry is "not" able to react in time.

This needs an overhaul.

 

[NaimaR]

Or you could just order your archers 10 feet back while your infantry is advancing 20.

 

[tyrannicide]

This needs an overhaul.

Put your archers to the /right/ of your infantry, slightly beyond.

The enemy, unless they charge disorderly, will have their cavalry on their right flank and their archers on their left one. The cavalry will charge into your infantry and your archers will shoot theirs first, as they will be closest to them.

 

[EdwardWellcraft]

I offset my archers and infantry. I'll put archers on a hill and then put infantry in front of and to the side of the hill.Clear lane of fire, and the enemy will usually turn off to fight the infantry before reaching the archers, allowing the archers to fire into the sides of the enemy army (if it is large enough that the back is not near other friendlies. )

 

[Diavolo]

I do things a bit different against cavalry, infantry and archers. Against cavalry its extremely important to have the enemy cavalry charge right into your tightly packed infanty pile. Archers dont have time to fire so many arrows at the cavalry anyway, they are mainly for the time when the cavalry scatters. So just have your infantry tight together in the middle, with archers just behind your infantry, and then have them spread out as soon as the enemy cavalry is stuck in your infantry pile.

Against enemy infantry do just like Abriael said, spread line of archers with infantry in tigh pile right behind, sally out infantry when enemy infantry gets close. Your infantry will win because they are the tightest. If you have spearmen or halberdiers, dont stack them that tight.

Against enemy archers I "hide" my infantry in a tight pile behind some small hill next to my archers who are spread out. As soon as the enemy archers get in range I start advancing my infantry 20 paces at the time, and then have them charge when they get close. (if you have throwing infantry make sure they hold fire while advancing to have them keep their shields up)

 

[Lightrend]

I do things a bit different against cavalry, infantry and archers. Against cavalry its extremely important to have the enemy cavalry charge right into your tightly packed infanty pile. Archers dont have time to fire so many arrows at the cavalry anyway, they are mainly for the time when the cavalry scatters. So just have your infantry tight together in the middle, with archers just behind your infantry, and then have them spread out as soon as the enemy cavalry is stuck in your infantry pile.

I actually like the tactics you use versus cavalry.Thanks for the suggestion.

Although it wouldnt hurt if Taleworlds could just make archers less sensible to friendlyfire.It could be much more realistic and logical if archers could fire behind the infantry,but these tactics will do of course.

 

[Abriael]

No It has been a perfect tactics for many civilizations such as for the british longbowman.Its not like I couldnt have thought of it,but this is what happens

1)Archers in front,scattered.Since they are Sarranid Archers in my case

a)Cav easily kills them by trampling
b)I lose my ranged units so quickly,since they will soak up most arrows which come at them with their weak armor.I would really like to keep infantry at front with their shield up.

2)I order infantry to advance paces.Apparently they are not clever enough to go through the space between,say,2 archers.He just tries to keept walking towards the archers back,therefore an infinite walk.He just walks towards him forever but I have seen some clever men aswell,who actually decide to use that space after being stuck for a couple of minutes.Therefore Infantry is "not" able to react in time.

This needs an overhaul.

Against cavalry is a tad more complex. have infantry start spread out as well (one order is enough, should solve your problem of them getting stuck), gotta order them to advance earlier, since cavalry is faster. As soon as they got beyond your archers, order them to close formation 4 times. That'll create a tight pack with the archers on the back that will stop any cavalry charge.

 

[Urlik]

I have all my foot archers and infantry classed as infantry and I tell them to hold position.
being mixed together, the archers fire at any enemy in range and the infantry stop anything that gets close.

this also helps if I am helping a village out as it keeps the farmers out of the main fighting while my companions and heavy cav get to work on the enemy

 

[Childe_Rolande]

I do things a bit different against cavalry, infantry and archers. Against cavalry its extremely important to have the enemy cavalry charge right into your tightly packed infanty pile. Archers dont have time to fire so many arrows at the cavalry anyway, they are mainly for the time when the cavalry scatters. So just have your infantry tight together in the middle, with archers just behind your infantry, and then have them spread out as soon as the enemy cavalry is stuck in your infantry pile.

I actually like the tactics you use versus cavalry.Thanks for the suggestion.

Although it wouldnt hurt if Taleworlds could just make archers less sensible to friendlyfire.It could be much more realistic and logical if archers could fire behind the infantry,but these tactics will do of course.

I have to agree here, as I used to be able to place them behind my infantry and allow them to shoot just fine in previous versions. I have tried placing the archers in front of the infantry, and it works just as well as when I place them beside them, (horizontally), but still... it should be able to work the first way.

Yes, I do appreciate the differing tactics, and it's still possible to use them effectively with infantry, but it seems most sensible to me to protect your archers, normally not armored enough and certainly not carrying shields with which to deflect projectile fire with. So I hear it's still possible if your archers are high enough? I'll have to try that out!

 

[Falcon Critical]

Definitely possible if you put archers on top of a hill and infantry down below, though the archers will still be more tentative, especially as the enemy approaches your melee line. I frequently placed my nord archers on a hill and then walked my infantry line around to find a good position.

Now that I'm largely cavalry (as Sarranids) I stand my archers in front of me, with cavarly to one side and sword sisters to the other side.  Enemy advances down the middle into archer range, as they get close you can pincer the enemy force with cavalry from both angles.

 

[Natti]

I've used the "Archers in front scattered, then advance with infantry" tactic since 0.903 and still use it in Warband. It seems to be very powerful.