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archers should not have direct access to twohanded weapons.
- Thread starter Namakan
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There is always the nuclear option which a community can adopt in case something is absolutely broken/bugged/OP: regulations, restrictions and bans. That's quite easy tbh.
And I'm not saying we should do that, suggesting it or anything else, but in many communities there are rules which regulate the game and not everything is used. What I want to express with this is that certain things can be considered at some point unacceptable by the community and therefore it will be removed in their organized games. I think about Europa Universalis 4 or Hearts of Iron 4 which are usually regulated with written rules next to game settings because otherwise the game would not be enjoyable since people tend to not be able to restraint themselves.
The problem is, that only works at events made by community, like pickups, BEAST etc, but with coming ranked system these restrictions just won't work at all, there would always be something like 2cav 4arch teams and the game won't be enjoyable to play. It will either result to the fact that nobody would play ranked, or to the fact that skirmishes won't be enjoyable at all.
Cavalry with couch lances. If lances were actually used.A question for those who defend the Fiann,
what unit of each faction is its nemesis, its counterpart?
In a 1vs1? Sorry but I highly doubt it.
Steelo
As a archer i dont want to die here but i think archer balanced with current patch. I like 2h weapons with archer.
Mushbeast
Knight at Arms
Do you mean 1.5.5 beta or 1.5.4?
If you mean 1.5.4, I heavily disagree. They fire too fast for one but that should hopefully be remedied on 1.5.5
Theres not much you can do if the cav knows how to play and the archer is stuck with the two hander.
This would probably happen:
And if the Fiann gets on a horse we put the icing on the cake...
Steelo
I meant 1.5.4. No its not fast. In the past archery was much faster than 1.5.4 and they nerfed heavily. And now its not that fast. I mean if you using Fiann its really slow espacialy against horsemen and also against for fast archers.
You cant expect the game like that, i mean if you are following the Beast 3 tournament you can see they are already encounter with 5 inf + 1 cav or 4 inf + 2 Cav so they are thinking archery is not worth it to use.
Every faction and every archer unit comes with disadvantages.
Which is Fiann is the most armored one. Most powerful one but still it has disadvantages. So this game is skirmish so you cannot estimate with focusing with only one feature. Teams respond to according to the selections of units so as a team you have to set your team according to opponents.
Some random players playing randomly without a unity and they thinking some units are unbalanced. Skirmish is mainly for team matches.
I dont disagree, I'm talking about the archer noticing the cavalry too late and not being able to defend himself without a shield. Cavalry shouldnt be charging in on an archer especially with low hp unless theyre ready to take the bullet. Or well...arrow.This would probably happen:
And if the Fiann gets on a horse we put the icing on the cake...
Fiann as far as I know cant use the bow on horseback since its a longbow. They fixed that bug a while back didnt they? I avoid playing horse archer like the plague regardless.
Mushbeast
Knight at Arms
Unless it has been changed, I was under the impression that BEAST put in a 2 archer limit because they are, in fact, too powerful
I can't comment too much on competitive skirmish anyway, as I can't really play it due to not having a matchmaking region with good ping to play it. From just about any other mode though (excluding captain), archers are extremely powerful in all regards, and due to the way certain classes are set up, are often more powerful in melee than a lot of other classes. From the few people left playing TDM in East Asia/OCE, you'll find that majority of those left main archers.
That's why I was remarking on the 1vs1 scenario where both sides are concentrated on the enemy. I was referring to the eternal debate of "is it ethical for an archer without riding skills to have access to a mount?
Theres no need for a debate. The answer is no. The idea that an infantry can pick up a bow and decimate a team is stupid. Same with an archer picking up a horse. ?
Can we change that now please?
You gonna get slapped so hard might leave the game as well lol.
The longbow is the mortal enemy of the cavalry because of it's sheer amount of damage potential to even heavy armored horses and the infamous two handed fiann sword can be a nice anti-cav weapon if you know how to block up and down. Cavalry with the lance stands little to no chance against the fiann, only exception is fiann looking somewhere else and unaware of your presence but he will hear your gallop, turn around and do a sick 360 no scope on your ass. If you get fiann in melee maybe with your 1h sword you can spam bump-slash but that stupid 2h sword is just too fast.
What I'm saying, is that if you couch towards an archer, who doesnt have a shield, and who detected you too late, there isnt much he can do besides try to dodge. Or hit your horse for maybe 70 ish hp and then take the hit to the face. Before you say "oh sure but thats if he doesnt see you" Yeah thats kinda how cavalry works against archers. If you run at em straight on, you should get shot.
But
Couch lances arnt used because they generally suck, so either fix couch lances or fix fiann.
Yeah you are not going to kill a fiann with a couch lance unless its right in his face because as you mentioned their damage is too low atm, but NIN3 said they increased the couch lance damage in 1.5.5 so we'll see...
+1 Very much agree.Theres no need for a debate. The answer is no. The idea that an infantry can pick up a bow and decimate a team is stupid. Same with an archer picking up a horse. ?
Can we change that now please?
Love ™ always remains in the end.
Merry Christmas mate (and to everyone who reads this), a hug.
My team got obliterated by two skilled archers on Battania with NO counterplay available, the moment you push the fiann he will crush you in melee in 1v1, so you need to allocate two infantry to get him under control and if two fianns are involved this calculation doesn't work. The moment these ****ers aren't checked, they deal deranged amounts of damage, if you check them, they can still win 1v1 reliably.
Before 1.5 they were OP, yes, cav as well and it's boring. I would argue that their effect has not been reduced that much in 1.5, but some ppl would argue otherwise since shooting is now harder (oh, oh, the pain!), so I'll drop that point.Unless it has been changed, I was under the impression that BEAST put in a 2 archer limit because they are, in fact, too powerful
By basicly forcing at least 2/2/2 the idea was to minimize boring gameplay and encourage what makes skirmish interesting: 2 teamfights per round, fast flag gameplay and combination of different classes together. With 1.5 the problem with infantry being absolutely useless has been mitigated but as I heard from the russian tournament many teams will still opt for 3 archers 3 cav if the opportunity arises.
According to the devs it's one of the things they won't touch since it promotes interesting gameplay. I don't agree with that and it's one of the key issues I guess why limits might remain long into the future because that way you can at least minimize the amount of cavalry/archery on the battlefield to looting what's on the battlefield. If you don't want the opponent team to have these tools, pick up bows of dead archers and put them on your back or kill stray horses. Problem solved.Theres no need for a debate. The answer is no. The idea that an infantry can pick up a bow and decimate a team is stupid. Same with an archer picking up a horse. ?
Can we change that now please?
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Steelo
@TheBard
Yes i agree with you about Fiann dangerous already and with a skilled player its op. I know 4 inf + 2 Fian actually means 6 infantry as a shock infantry its deadly. But we were talking about archery and Fiann has high damage but slowest one. For a large map if we consider fiann its also deadly yes but if we have a little map like Xauna player can react the horsemen but hard to shoot to the horsemen because arrow not releasing at time because of the little map. A skilled horseman doesnt show himself to you and when he suddenly come out of the edges you dont have time to release arrow and this is what Fiann disadvantage here.
Yes i agree with you about Fiann dangerous already and with a skilled player its op. I know 4 inf + 2 Fian actually means 6 infantry as a shock infantry its deadly. But we were talking about archery and Fiann has high damage but slowest one. For a large map if we consider fiann its also deadly yes but if we have a little map like Xauna player can react the horsemen but hard to shoot to the horsemen because arrow not releasing at time because of the little map. A skilled horseman doesnt show himself to you and when he suddenly come out of the edges you dont have time to release arrow and this is what Fiann disadvantage here.
