Archers need to be nerfed

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yaomu125

Count
They feel like machine gun fire in this game. They are strong in melee and ranged with their huge 2 handed swords and polearms.

Please taleworlds nerf archers
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
I still think the best way to go about archer spam is to introduce a super armor mechanic for cavalry. People who have played fighting games in the past should know what i'm talking about, but basically, having a limited form of flinch immunity while on horseback could force archers to either land consistent headshots or switch to a spear infantry.

That way, infantry will still be countered by ranged units, while archers can actually be countered by something other than more archers.
 

vfkaseke

Veteran
WB
I still think the best way to go about archer spam is to introduce a super armor mechanic for cavalry. People who have played fighting games in the past should know what i'm talking about, but basically, having a limited form of flinch immunity while on horseback could force archers to either land consistent headshots or switch to a spear infantry.

That way, infantry will still be countered by ranged units, while archers can actually be countered by something other than more archers.
It seems to me that this thread, once again, is only about TDM and siege, and seeing as that is the case, isn't cav way too strong in those modes already anyway? Cav having super armor is the dumbest idea yet, as is saying that archers are too strong in melee.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
It seems to me that this thread, once again, is only about TDM and siege, and seeing as that is the case, isn't cav way too strong in those modes already anyway? Cav having super armor is the dumbest idea yet, as is saying that archers are too strong in melee.
Super Armor would mean that ranged attacks would still deal the same amount of damage to someone without Super Armor, but if an archer were to hit a mounted player during the middle of an attack animation, the animation would not be interrupted unless the damage is fatal. Couched lance would probably need a new stat that dictates the number of ranged attacks that can be shrugged off before the stance is broken, with the number of tokens regenerating over time up to a maximum number assigned to the lance in question (scoring kills would speed up the token regeneration process).

The idea is that if infantry are consistently getting mowed down by ranged units, a player would be able to respond to the ranged spam by picking a mounted class to melee archers to death from horseback thanks to a mechanic borrowed from the fighting game genre.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
I think it's called hyper armor and it's usually a large boost in poise so you don't get interrupted during a big haymaker special. I don't haven't any opinion on this topic tough. I mean they, haven't figured out normal armor and you want hyper armor ? 🤡
 

vfkaseke

Veteran
WB
Super Armor would mean that ranged attacks would still deal the same amount of damage to someone without Super Armor, but if an archer were to hit a mounted player during the middle of an attack animation, the animation would not be interrupted unless the damage is fatal. Couched lance would probably need a new stat that dictates the number of ranged attacks that can be shrugged off before the stance is broken, with the number of tokens regenerating over time up to a maximum number assigned to the lance in question (scoring kills would speed up the token regeneration process).

The idea is that if infantry are consistently getting mowed down by ranged units, a player would be able to respond to the ranged spam by picking a mounted class to melee archers to death from horseback thanks to a mechanic borrowed from the fighting game genre.
I know what your super armor meant, and stand by my statement. Dumbest idea I've heard on fixing archers.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
I still think the best way to go about archer spam is to introduce a super armor mechanic for cavalry. People who have played fighting games in the past should know what i'm talking about, but basically, having a limited form of flinch immunity while on horseback could force archers to either land consistent headshots or switch to a spear infantry.

That way, infantry will still be countered by ranged units, while archers can actually be countered by something other than more archers.
Yes buffing cav is surely a good idea (??)

To OP: Archers in this game have the following disadvantages:

- they are slow to reload
- they are significantly slower both sprinting and in combat
- they cannot switch their weapon when being "bumped"
- javs are accurate, cav are fast and silent, inf are very fast; all counter archers
- they cannot turn far and shoot accurately

They are not overpowered at all. What they ARE, is annoying. We should not conflate the two.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Archers are overpowered in public gamemodes because theres a hundred of them. They can also get up to positions thats frustrating ori near impossible for infantry and cavalry to get to, like most of the TDM maps have walls and rooftops to climb on.
Theres very little reason to be a light infantry when you can be a light archer with range capabilities.

Also please dont give cavs superarmor, I'm already hating the fact that I cant stun them out of their couch with a shot to the shield like I could in warband
 
Anyone that thinks cav needs to be buffed to better counter archers is clearly a cavalryman salty they aren't good enough to bump-hit

Cavalry in BL is so much easier than Warband because horses have obscene amounts of health, armoured horses are more common, horses are more agile and less impacted by bad riding, and ranged is relatively less effective against cavalry than warband. To say nothing of stealth horses.

Cavalry should be punished for shadowing infantry too closely. Javelins especially should be absolutely lethal to a horse. But they're lazy, so they want to stare at an infantry blob from 10 meters away like a Pitbull staring at a peanut butter covered baby. And no, the perk barely helps.

They are not overpowered at all. What they ARE, is annoying. We should not conflate the two.

☝️☝️☝️

 
the solution is to reduce arrow damage to heavy armor and remove the movement penalty for the archer class(attach the movement penalty to the quiver/bow so archers have to drop their kiting ranged weapon in order to run normally)

the current mount and blade experience is either:

pick archer and get surrounded by two faster infantry opponents and get killed

pick infantry(if you get the spear with your infantry class you cannot select the movement bonus perk and will be surrounded by faster infantry like an archer) and get unblock-able horse bump hit or have two archers surround you and shoot you (in warband you can back pedal faster while holding up your shield but in bannerlord shields have a greater movement penalty so the only way to not be surrounded is to put the shield on your back and flee; but arrows can even penetrate the shield on your back and through the heavy armor)

or pick cavalry
this is the best class currently because you (assuming you are the fastest horse in the battle) can outrun any situation and can just focus on other cavalry. Unfortunately the moment you have to fight multiple infantrymen you lose because of the movement penalty cavalry has when dismounted making you as slow as an archer thus being surrounded and killed

please let cavalry run normally when dismounted

by having all classes run normally(based only on weight) you encourage more melee combat(without the dismounted cavalry movement speed penalty horses should be nerfed, reduced hit points/removal of the unblockable horse bump hit mechanic)
 

Horatius

On probation
WBNWVC
by having all classes run normally(based only on weight) you encourage more melee combat(without the dismounted cavalry movement speed penalty horses should be nerfed, reduced hit points/removal of the unblockable horse bump hit mechanic)
Stop derailing the topic, you have posted this 924 times I think people know atm that you want to change one of the core mechanics from the M&B series
 

yaomu125

Count
the solution is to reduce arrow damage to heavy armor and remove the movement penalty for the archer class(attach the movement penalty to the quiver/bow so archers have to drop their kiting ranged weapon in order to run normally)

the current mount and blade experience is either:

pick archer and get surrounded by two faster infantry opponents and get killed

pick infantry(if you get the spear with your infantry class you cannot select the movement bonus perk and will be surrounded by faster infantry like an archer) and get unblock-able horse bump hit or have two archers surround you and shoot you (in warband you can back pedal faster while holding up your shield but in bannerlord shields have a greater movement penalty so the only way to not be surrounded is to put the shield on your back and flee; but arrows can even penetrate the shield on your back and through the heavy armor)

or pick cavalry
this is the best class currently because you (assuming you are the fastest horse in the battle) can outrun any situation and can just focus on other cavalry. Unfortunately the moment you have to fight multiple infantrymen you lose because of the movement penalty cavalry has when dismounted making you as slow as an archer thus being surrounded and killed

please let cavalry run normally when dismounted

by having all classes run normally(based only on weight) you encourage more melee combat(without the dismounted cavalry movement speed penalty horses should be nerfed, reduced hit points/removal of the unblockable horse bump hit mechanic)
I disagree with this. Cavalry and archers simply should not be proficient in melee fighting. The purpose of their class simply isn't that.

Removing bump hit also makes infantry unbeatable.

Cavalry is really only good in casual modes where they can quickly rack up kills due to the huge skill difference and their fast speed. However, in more competitive settings, archers can dominate pretty well.
 

Krisee

Sergeant
by having all classes run normally(based only on weight) you encourage more melee combat(without the dismounted cavalry movement speed penalty horses should be nerfed, reduced hit points/removal of the unblockable horse bump hit mechanic)
No you don't encourage melee combat when you allow archers to run away from melee. There is nothing wrong with bump hitting, it is a skill, and if you get hit by it just get better at using your WASD keys.
 

vfkaseke

Veteran
WB
the solution is to reduce arrow damage to heavy armor and remove the movement penalty for the archer class(attach the movement penalty to the quiver/bow so archers have to drop their kiting ranged weapon in order to run normally)

the current mount and blade experience is either:

pick archer and get surrounded by two faster infantry opponents and get killed

pick infantry(if you get the spear with your infantry class you cannot select the movement bonus perk and will be surrounded by faster infantry like an archer) and get unblock-able horse bump hit or have two archers surround you and shoot you (in warband you can back pedal faster while holding up your shield but in bannerlord shields have a greater movement penalty so the only way to not be surrounded is to put the shield on your back and flee; but arrows can even penetrate the shield on your back and through the heavy armor)

or pick cavalry
this is the best class currently because you (assuming you are the fastest horse in the battle) can outrun any situation and can just focus on other cavalry. Unfortunately the moment you have to fight multiple infantrymen you lose because of the movement penalty cavalry has when dismounted making you as slow as an archer thus being surrounded and killed

please let cavalry run normally when dismounted

by having all classes run normally(based only on weight) you encourage more melee combat(without the dismounted cavalry movement speed penalty horses should be nerfed, reduced hit points/removal of the unblockable horse bump hit mechanic)
Your opinions are as terrible as always.
 

Zarthas

Knight
To OP: Archers in this game have the following disadvantages:

- they are slow to reload
- they are significantly slower both sprinting and in combat
- they cannot switch their weapon when being "bumped"
- javs are accurate, cav are fast and silent, inf are very fast; all counter archers
- they cannot turn far and shoot accurately

They are not overpowered at all. What they ARE, is annoying. We should not conflate the two.
Can't disagree at all. If I get killed by an archer (and I do) there was almost always a clear "correct" way to engage them. They're very narrowly specialized.
I'm not sure what game some of these people are playing, I'm not finding Archers to be particularly dominant. Top frags are almost always cav or heavy infantry.
Maybe this is a Team Deathmatch perceived problem? I would argue any experience there is invalid to overall game balance until friendly fire is enabled again.
 

Zarthas

Knight
The OP said elsewhere that he plays Siege and TDM, which are up there with captain in the worst possible ways of discerning class balance.
That'll do it.
TW does still bear some responsibility here for making TDM absolutely unplayable between no friendly fire and stealth instagib horses. Certainly muddies the waters for feedback if you intentionally make some popular game modes completely incomparable to the rest of the game.
 
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