Archers in 1.5

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RDP

Sergeant
Bring back warband archery, it was perfect. Noobs sucked and people that put time into it made it look op, the way it should be.
 

vfkaseke

Veteran
WB
Archers in captain mode are now absolutely trash. The accuracy nerf for AI made them almost useless in captain mode, since they can't hit anything before being overrun. It's pretty bad.

Personally I don't mind the personal combat changes to archery, since it's mostly just about finding the rythm to get shots off. It does feel a bit less intuitive to aim though, since you have to hold it for so long.
 

Electre

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNW
Even if it's perfectly balanced, even if the archer is at the very top of game balance, to me it's not fun to play. Moreover, if you're hit when readying the bow, the process starts all over, same with throwables, with that release delay that feels unnatural in comparision to throwing things in any videogame. Somebody said ingame it's about getting used to it, but, well, getting used to something that's way too unfun atm is not in my radar.
 

Percival!!

Knight
I think archers are in a decent place right now, acting more in a support role (as they should). They are an essential part of the team and definitely hold their own when it comes to kills and assists in the larger game modes.
I'm not great at the game but still managed this last night. Followed it up with a round of crossbows and scored well in that match too.
View attachment 161655
7 kills against randoms in a mode where archers are op and can sit in one spot freeshooting for days is a really weak argument as to archers being in a good place right now.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
Im convinced that archer is still very good after playing another scrimmage today. Good archers are an asset, and the skill ceiling will be higher than before 1.5
 

RDP

Sergeant
Even if it's perfectly balanced, even if the archer is at the very top of game balance, to me it's not fun to play. Moreover, if you're hit when readying the bow, the process starts all over, same with throwables, with that release delay that feels unnatural in comparision to throwing things in any videogame. Somebody said ingame it's about getting used to it, but, well, getting used to something that's way too unfun atm is not in my radar.
They need to make it harder and slower, 1.5 is a step in the right direction, ranged weapons are way too easy to pick up atm, why play inf and the core mechanics of m&b when you can just have a full auto sniper rifle.
 

Ling*

Knight at Arms
I think archers are in a decent place right now, acting more in a support role (as they should). They are an essential part of the team and definitely hold their own when it comes to kills and assists in the larger game modes.
I understand why you guys changed them for the single-character modes such as Skirmish, and Siege. But archers are extremely weak in captains mode now, and are nearly useless compared to how they were before. This has forced players into a meta of spamming 2-handed shock troops even more often than they did in the previous patches which is not particularly fun. Skirmisher (javelin throwing) units are just as useless now that the Ai has the same restrictions with aiming and throwing as the player does., and don't get me started on cavalry.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
@Ling* This meta that you talk about is also happening on Skirmish. I used to play peasant classes but now it seems way more beneficial to take 2h classes.

Let's take a look at a few factors:
2h classes are considerably faster than other inf classes
2h weapons feel faster than 1h weapons in some cases, doing 3 or 4 times the damage of 1handers, making them overly powerful
2h classes now get a shield allowing them to get close without too much trouble
Block delay removal is essentially a massive buff to 2h classes since they are the ones that rely on blocking manually the most.

The meta has indeed shifted to 2h and I guess we are now all forced to take 2h classes and spam it in both skirmish and captain mode.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
@Ling* This meta that you talk about is also happening on Skirmish. I used to play peasant classes but now it seems way more beneficial to take 2h classes.

Let's take a look at a few factors:
2h classes are considerably faster than other inf classes
2h weapons feel faster than 1h weapons in some cases, doing 3 or 4 times the damage of 1handers, making them overly powerful
2h classes now get a shield allowing them to get close without too much trouble
Block delay removal is essentially a massive buff to 2h classes since they are the ones that rely on blocking manually the most.

The meta has indeed shifted to 2h and I guess we are now all forced to take 2h classes and spam it in both skirmish and captain mode.
The meta certainly isnt 2handers in skirmish, but yeah captain is in a rough spot.
 
I don't usually play archer, but when I do it's the Khan's Guard (since it has the best melee for Khuzait).

So I was okay with the slow shooting. The problem I see with faster accurate fire with less hold time is that you can fire into a melee scrub several times and trust it will hit the right guy.

I would like to see penalties for hitting friendlies. I think the archer should lose 1 gold for every friendly hit point they cause.

It is so annoying to fight someone while an archer takes pot shots at you with no risk.
 

CdJrcxx

Sergeant at Arms
NW
Then what is the meta

Haven't been many scrims with new update but in the few we've done the infantry meta did shift to use medium infantry more often then before although heavy inf are still heavily used. Archers have actually been more deadly in new update in our scrims than they were prior. We also have not run much cavalry but this is more because we haven't had many of our cav players showing up lately rather than they aren't usable.

We've mainly used. 4IN/2A | 3IN/3A | 3IN/2A/1C As our loadouts. We've used 2 handers only a couple times but incorporating them into any sort of purposeful composition hasn't been super impactful for us. The update does allow them to be used though, but when working against a real team it is difficult. In pub matches yeah you could probably easily enough be a 2 hander and dominate but if that's the case than I argue that the new meta is Vlandian peasant.

Long story short - Archers still very deadly, 2 handers usable in competitive setting now but no more threatening than other classes.
 
  1. Just put the firing rate a little bit faster for light bows and decrease the damage (and/or projectile velocity).
  2. Add heavier draw weight bows and have the firing about the same firing rate they are now and have them deal the damage bows already do.

Now you can have people shooting fast, for people who liked the old system, while maintaining the needed balance + now you added more depth to the gameplay.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
After having played archer again for a while, archery is still incredibly strong, it just feels worse because of how slow it is. We should just get used to it, overall I think its a good change. Archers being more deadly makes sense if you're playing alot of medium infantry, against heavy (especially Battania now) its not as effective.
More testing required.
 

Kratzzz

Recruit
Archery is fine right now. It's not too strong and not too weak. If u will play and training only ur shooting skills, u will see how ur skill increases. Everything will come with experience. If u are want to play as archer and shoot well on 1.5 combat system, everything what u need it's just more trainings and experience. If u really love archery in bl and want to play it like ur main class, no sense to complaining about, just play and u will get used to new system. x)

Dextrus, my arrows love ur head ^^
 

Ling*

Knight at Arms
Archery is fine right now. It's not too strong and not too weak. If u will play and training only ur shooting skills, u will see how ur skill increases. Everything will come with experience. If u are want to play as archer and shoot well on 1.5 combat system, everything what u need it's just more trainings and experience. If u really love archery in bl and want to play it like ur main class, no sense to complaining about, just play and u will get used to new system. x)

Dextrus, my arrows love ur head ^^

Unfortunately, no amount of training will make our Ai units less incompetent at shooting their bows in captain mode.
 

CdJrcxx

Sergeant at Arms
NW
Unfortunately, no amount of training will make our Ai units less incompetent at shooting their bows in captain mode.

That's fair, haven't seen how AI shoot in this update but I can imagine the issues they could have. Is it more of an archery balance problem or an AI just being stupid kind of problem though?
 

Ling*

Knight at Arms
A little bit of both, the Ai has always been sort of goofy, however in 1.4.3 they were still able to use their bows effectively and in a reasonable state of balance in the mode, no one ever saw archers as overpowered in any way and they had a place at the meta table for troop compositions. In 1.5 since the Ai is now restricted in how accurate / how fast it can pull back a bowstring you'll be lucky to get a few kills before the enemy speedy-boi shock troops are just in your face clobbering them to death. Not to mention for some reason the Ai can't or won't fully aim its bows before firing so you just end up with a bunch of shots that land in the dirt hitting nothing but air.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
Yeah AI is retarded anyways. I recall AI bots walking into walls and **** like that in sieges. Its like they dont know where to go so they decide to attack a random wall
 
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