Archers crying time

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OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
------------------General Mechanics------------------

1. Decrease bow sheathe time.
2. Quicker maximum accuracy for : Longbows, Arbalest.
3. Hugely decrease or remove flickshots and following aim penalty.
4. Crouch while reload crossbow with crouching and standing up speed reduced while reloading.
5. Shield equipping time should be faster if it is being switched to only a shield ( Similar to Warband).
6. Faster bow perk should be exactly the same as default bow but just a little faster.
7. Faster bow and faster release perks should be 1 perk and should be actually useful.
8. Superior bow needs to become useful.
9. For heavy archer units default stack of arrows should contain 30 instead of 25.
I don't have much opinion on the equipment changes, but for the mechanics:

1: Disagree, as with any weapon switch, this should encourage decision making as to what you need equipped.
2: Kind of agree: it should be a more linear curve imo, where it starts off inaccurate and gradually becomes more accurate. Right now the heavier bows feel like they are just inaccurate, then suddenly very accurate, which is too binary.
3: Don't agree, it could maybe be tweaked but in general it is not difficult to adjust to this.
4: Don't really agree, the slow and vulnerable reload of an xbow is part of their balance. If xbows are underpowered rn then buff them elsewhere.
5: 100% agree, and this should apply to all classes.

Don't care much about the rest but in general it does feel like only 1 perk combination is actually useful, maybe 2 if you're doing a drop. But this is the same across many classes.

Some things you didn't touch on:
- When getting "bumped" with bow out, the game should still register your decision to change weapon. Right now you need to completely stop being bumped in order for the game to register input which feels awful.
- The low movement speed feels terrible.
 

Koso

Squire
1: Disagree, as with any weapon switch, this should encourage decision making as to what you need equipped.
2: Kind of agree: it should be a more linear curve imo, where it starts off inaccurate and gradually becomes more accurate. Right now the heavier bows feel like they are just inaccurate, then suddenly very accurate, which is too binary.
3: Don't agree, it could maybe be tweaked but in general it is not difficult to adjust to this.
4: Don't really agree, the slow and vulnerable reload of an xbow is part of their balance. If xbows are underpowered rn then buff them elsewhere.
5: 100% agree, and this should apply to all classes.
1. I think it just because of cavalry. Cavalry can one shot you when you actually already change to another weapon. It takes too much time. It is not even play style or wrong decision making. Most of the time If cavalry comes to you from nowhere you have no choice but begging not to die with one hit.
3. Its not about to adjust or playing with it. Every player can get use to it but, there is problem like those mechanics force you to just camp one here and defend. For Mount and Blade series its never has been. Archer should be in fight not only shoot from 100 meters away. Game is just punishing you to for following cavarly for 20 meters. Your aim goes to the moon.
4. Maybe you want to punish xbows like this but, it is not even realistic. Also I believe that xbows shouldn't have waiting time to maximum accuracy. When xbows found even peasants can use it. Very strong weapon and very easy to use in history.
Some things you didn't touch on:
- When getting "bumped" with bow out, the game should still register your decision to change weapon. Right now you need to completely stop being bumped in order for the game to register input which feels awful.
- The low movement speed feels terrible.
Agree with you on these, we should add.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
1. I think it just because of cavalry. Cavalry can one shot you when you actually already change to another weapon. It takes too much time. It is not even play style or wrong decision making. Most of the time If cavalry comes to you from nowhere you have no choice but begging not to die with one hit.
Yeah I agree with this, I think this ties into the shield switch though, and also the general top speed of cav being too high. No need to buff archer switching weapons which can just create another cancerous style.
3. Its not about to adjust or playing with it. Every player can get use to it but, there is problem like those mechanics force you to just camp one here and defend. For Mount and Blade series its never has been. Archer should be in fight not only shoot from 100 meters away. Game is just punishing you to for following cavarly for 20 meters. Your aim goes to the moon.
To be honest I haven't noticed any issues with following cav or adjusting my aim quickly, in this regard I suspect the game is closer to Warband in its current state. I don't know if archers need the capacity to flickshot with high accuracy. In fairness I've played the game less since this change came into effect so there may be some edge cases needing tweaked, but the overall system I don't dislike.
4. Maybe you want to punish xbows like this but, it is not even realistic. Also I believe that xbows shouldn't have waiting time to maximum accuracy. When xbows found even peasants can use it. Very strong weapon and very easy to use in history.
I don't know about realism, didn't xbows need to be placed pointing down and using your full body to draw them? BUT: I also don't care. Xbows crouching and reloading behind cover was annoying and allowed them to counter their own weakness. I do think xbows lose accuracy too much though, they should remain accurate through aiming for a lot longer.
 

Aurex

Veteran
WB
My main gripe with archery is the little double-take before every shot which makes you feel like a 98-years old with parkinson.
I have no idea why everyone isn't complaining about that all the time, it's made archery unbearable for me. The AI also doesn't have that little stroke in between shots, making peasant archers shoot faster than a 250 skill character.
 

Zarthas

Knight
I'm fine with all this as long as when I have my shield clipping inside your bow you can't fire and instantly headshot me at point blank :razz:

Flickshots being nerfed but still being able to just flick to the side and oneshot an incoming inf while he's literally hugging your face is honestly so backwards. Just inside kick range would be a nice distance to start bumping archers/crossbowmen who keep their ranged weapons out just a bit too long.

Archer classes have very boring perks too, I'd still rather see an emphasis on Heavy Archers being a close combat fighter with the ability to go ranged and Light Archers having access to all that factions bows from weakest/fastest to most powerful/slowest.
I agree, but I just hate the bump stun mechanic so much.

I think the first moment I had a "oh **** this game is ****ed" realization was the introduction of ranged-weapon bump stun.

Like, rather than fix the very obvious problem if clipping into someone's head when you fire a ranged weapon, or try to I dunno, balance ranged weapons properly, we introduced a goofy mechanic.

I can't explain how it feels to get bump stun locked when you have a throwing axe out and a riderless horse pins you in a corner.
I think it is one of the first circles of hell.
I'm creeping up on 2000 hours, and I still have to think about what the hell is going on because it is so unintuitive. Its like you're having a sneezing fit.

Heavy archers being able to hold their own in close combat is kind of what makes them "heavy", if it were up to me I'd throw a Maul on the Vlandian Sharpshooter and call it a ****ing day.
 

Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Oh yeah it's definitely an awkward workaround for the issue of people letting arrows go that have already technically started pointing out the otherside of my head when I'm facehugging an archer with a drawn bow, and would be much improved by just making it so those shots whiff instead would probably look a little less ridiculous.
 

Pacemaker

Knight at Arms
These suggestions show the reasons why I quit playing archer despite wanting it to be my main class for so long. It's reached the point where it's just plain annoying to play as one. With how little versatility and options they get to defend themselves on a chaotic battlefield now, they are pretty much one step away from sitting in a wheelchair. The nerf to speed of weapon switching did way more damage than any non-archer can possibly imagine.

By no means are they weak. It's just become exceptionally hard to play a good archer that can contribute more than an infantry. The fact that people like Koso or Popo still make them work is not proof that archers are fine, but more so a showcase of how skilled they are as players to deal with all the bull**** nerfs they've been subjected to.
 

flashn00b

Veteran
Personally, i'd like for the Southern Heavy Mace to be a bit faster. Aserai's lack of heavy infantry is a pretty jarring weakness that will only be made worse with the nerfing of the Skirmisher's ability to fight in close quarters.
 
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