Archers crying time

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Hello there, me with Koso and 1or3 made a little list about the changes we would love to see for ranged units.

------------------Empire------------------

Archer Militia: It's good as it is

Palatine Guard: Buff Light crossbow damage or just replace with regular Crossbow
Replace improved armor with polearm (remove improved armor)
Replace polearm with extra arrows
Replace mace with stronger arrows
*if crossbow perk is picked instead of bow then ammo perks need to count as bolt perks*

------------------Aserai------------------

Archer: Replace default mace with flyssa
Replace sword perk with mace perk

Veteran: Replace heavy mace with faster bow

------------------Khuzait------------------

Steppe Bow: It's good as it is

Khan's Guard: Replace Heavy Mace with Faster Bow

------------------Sturgia------------------

Hunter: Make longsword default weapon instead of the axe
Replace longsword with improved armor

------------------Vlandia------------------

Arbelist: Replace axe perk with improved armor perk
Replace mace perk with faster release

Sharpshooter: It's good as it is

------------------Battania------------------

Ranger: Replace mace perk with shield perk (Targe)

Fiann: Change better sword to Rhomphaia



------------------General Mechanics------------------

1. Decrease bow sheathe time.
2. Quicker maximum accuracy for : Longbows, Arbalest.
3. Hugely decrease or remove flickshots and following aim penalty.
4. Crouch while reload crossbow with crouching and standing up speed reduced while reloading.
5. Shield equipping time should be faster if it is being switched to only a shield ( Similar to Warband).
6. Faster bow perk should be exactly the same as default bow but just a little faster.
7. Faster bow and faster release perks should be 1 perk and should be actually useful.
8. Superior bow needs to become useful.
9. For heavy archer units default stack of arrows should contain 30 instead of 25.

@NIN3 @AVRC @Callum
 
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Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
No mention about horse archer? Sad. (Also, if we ever got to pick more than 3 perks for a slot, please consider brining back bows for cavalry units)

Decrease bow sheate time would be a bigger buff for horse archers than regular archers imo. And also fast shield equip for that matter. (These are necessary for horse archery to be decent again and viable. The other option is to lower moving accuracy penalty, but that is more controversial I guess).

I think I agree for most of anything, really.

Not sure about going from 25 -> 30 arrows, it does not seem like a big problem at the moment.
 

OneClips

Recruit
WBWF&SNWVC
+1

Many of those ideas above sound fun and reasonable, but cant agree with:

Arbelist: Replace axe perk with improved armor perk
improved armor with light crossbow and strong bolts is a little too powerful for a light archer
2. Quicker maximum accuracy for : Longbows,
would make the light archer of battania/sturgia together with shield perk too powerful (especially with long sword as default for sturgia)

----------------------------------------------

I agree with ther rest of the points. It would bring a nice fresh and fun change to the playstyle of archer.
But I guess its going into a direction of making all factions archers equally powerfull which I guess is hard to implement since inf and cav arent equally good in all factions... which in first place is the point of having different factions.
 
No mention about horse archer? Sad. (Also, if we ever got to pick more than 3 perks for a slot, please consider brining back bows for cavalry units)

Decrease bow sheate time would be a bigger buff for horse archers than regular archers imo. And also fast shield equip for that matter. (These are necessary for horse archery to be decent again and viable. The other option is to lower moving accuracy penalty, but that is more controversial I guess).

I think I agree for most of anything, really.

Not sure about going from 25 -> 30 arrows, it does not seem like a big problem at the moment.
oh the horse archers... well we forgot about them. Things like slowing down the horse speed while having a bow in your hands might help a bit also dmg penalty while shooting from a mount. I've never really played and tried to understand this class. U can post something if you feel like you can add any own ideas to the topic.
I agree with ther rest of the points. It would bring a nice fresh and fun change to the playstyle of archer.
But I guess its going into a direction of making all factions archers equally powerfull which I guess is hard to implement since inf and cav arent equally good in all factions... which in first place is the point of having different factions.
that's just about making all the perks atleast worth to try out. none says to make every bow as powerful as fianns longbow but that's the way we think it should look like where the archer has everything he needs not some dead, never picked perks which are useless.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'd prefer seeing next patch first before discussing further balance changes tbh.

Right now these seem a bit too much to me.
 

Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'm fine with all this as long as when I have my shield clipping inside your bow you can't fire and instantly headshot me at point blank :razz:

Flickshots being nerfed but still being able to just flick to the side and oneshot an incoming inf while he's literally hugging your face is honestly so backwards. Just inside kick range would be a nice distance to start bumping archers/crossbowmen who keep their ranged weapons out just a bit too long.

Archer classes have very boring perks too, I'd still rather see an emphasis on Heavy Archers being a close combat fighter with the ability to go ranged and Light Archers having access to all that factions bows from weakest/fastest to most powerful/slowest.
 

56nights

Recruit
I'm fine with all this as long as when I have my shield clipping inside your bow you can't fire and instantly headshot me at point blank :razz:

Flickshots being nerfed but still being able to just flick to the side and oneshot an incoming inf while he's literally hugging your face is honestly so backwards. Just inside kick range would be a nice distance to start bumping archers/crossbowmen who keep their ranged weapons out just a bit too long.

Archer classes have very boring perks too, I'd still rather see an emphasis on Heavy Archers being a close combat fighter with the ability to go ranged and Light Archers having access to all that factions bows from weakest/fastest to most powerful/slowest.
Is it really hard to understand that flicking is client-side mouse movement, and as long as you bump them they can't shoot you. You prefer to cry rather than actually taking advantage of this simple game mechanic??
 

Koso

Squire
improved armor with light crossbow and strong bolts is a little too powerful for a light archer
I wouldn't say its OP because If you got improved armor you will got light crossbow and that means not that big damage also armor will go 3 --> 12 not much.

No mention about horse archer? Sad.
In my opinion, no need to talk about horse archer when you already talked about archer. Horse archer also need "faster bow or faster release thing." When you pick faster bow as damage either you threw stone or arrow doesnt matter. Even stone has much more accuracy than faster bow so that makes stone better :grin: So huge damage and accuracy gap between default bow.
 

Steelo

+1 for suggestions
And heavy archers must be adressed, they are armored right but every faction's heavy arhcer unit dies in one hit to the head with 2h axes and with cav pike.

I mean they are armored just for visual thats it. And also polearm useless against infantries, you cant hit while you moving because all infantries faster than your movement speed so when you try to hit, it doesnt hit and glance off. Infantries dancing in front of us while we cant catch up.

So remove polearm and give us decent weapon or increase movement speed.
Bring back crouching for crossbow and bow.
 
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Poddicus

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Gonna say this again

Just remove ranged weapons from the game
And most other things since you can't balance those either
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Empire polearm on foot is really hard to make work against inf. Almost makes me wish it came with a gladius or something.

Of course it is very good in a number of situations, but for others, its quite useless.
 
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Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Is it really hard to understand that flicking is client-side mouse movement, and as long as you bump them they can't shoot you. You prefer to cry rather than actually taking advantage of this simple game mechanic??
Actually cause of this guy, **** archers all my homies hate archers.

:mad:
 

Horatius

Sergeant at Arms
WBNWVC
Good changes, except this point might need some clarification:
"Hugely decrease or remove flickshots and following aim penalty"
Do you mean to remove flickshots or the aim penalty? @Popowicz the World

And the faster bow perks are currently useless as you get less damage and accuracy in the 80s which is completely wank and unusable.

Make archery feel satisfying again.
 
Do you mean to remove flickshots or the aim penalty? @Popowicz the World
I mean to romove flickshots penalty

Empire polearm on foot is really hard to make work against inf. Almost makes me wish it came with a gladius or something.

Of course it is very good in a number of situations, but for others, its quite useless.
polearm same as glaive is the option which many of archers will pick as it helps with stopping/scaring away cavs coming at you also I can't agree with you, it's a great melle weapon.
 
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