Anyone know anything about licensing from Nintendo?

[ex_ottoyuhr]

Dear Forum,

I'm currently in the preliminary stages (planning and equipment/troop re-specification) of a mod to be based on Nintendo's _Fire Emblem 4_, a rather undeservedly obscure -- and, in fact, never released in the U.S. -- turn-based strategy game with a decidedly 'heroic' and even 'Irish mythic' style. However, I do *not* want to risk being Foxed in the process -- I envision this mod becoming a significant resume entry at the very least, and I want to be able to describe and/or publicize it without fear of cease-and-desist.

So, does anyone here know, or know anyone who might know, or know anyone who might know someone who might know, etc., whether Nintendo has proven amenable to this sort of thing in the past? Does anyone know whether I could get permission from NCL to carry this out without fear of Foxing?

Google, at least, is turning up *very* little. I get the impression that people don't make mods based on Nintendo IP very often at all... _FE4_ is an obscure enough game that I think I might have a chance of this; does anyone else think so?

Thanks in advance,

Ex_Ottoyuhr

 

[Professor420]

You would have good a chance of doing it and never getting 'foxed' or shut down. In fact, I'd say go ahead. However, you have little to no chance of getting the OK from Nintendo. A publisher will almost never (I'd even go ahead and say never ever) allow its IP to be used legally by a free, uncontracted team for a free game or mod. It wouldn't make any sense for them.

 

[kabex]

Do it, don't tell anyone.

It'd be easier for you to win the lottery 20 times in a row than Nintendo reading the m&b forums, finding out and sending a SWAT team to your house.

 

[Deus Ex]

I believe, that as long as you do not use it "comercially" - don't sell it or make money from it - you should be ok.

DE

 

[ex_ottoyuhr]

Deus Ex, Kabex, Professor420,

I suppose you've got a point; you're right. I somehow don't see Nintendo as a company likely to Fox people -- though they did used to do nasty things to companies that start messing with their patents.

I guess, then, that I'll keep working on it, and see what happens. I should probably have something more solid before I bring up the subject of the mod even here -- let alone with Nintendo -- although I wonder whether they'd really be more lenient when dealing with a fait accompli than with an initial suggestion.

Professor420, though, would you mind elaborating on your thoughts? Most of the time, I agree, it makes very little sense for a company to let a mod team use its IP -- but most of the time, the kinds of IP that attract modders are *big*, Zelda big if not Lord of the Rings big. Fire Emblem 4 is ridiculously obscure -- I almost wonder whether Nintendo would appreciate the publicity...

But then, they probably won't. IP law is definately the subject of some slightly irrational emotions...

Somewhat but not too much crestfallen,

Ex_Ottoyuhr

 

[MMad]

They'd never allow it if they knew about it. Even if they did know about it, they may not care about it as long as they can maintain the illusions that they don't know, for various legal reasons. If you ask, they can't claim ignorance and have to forbid you to use their IP in any way.

I say just go ahead. It's not legal, but the risk of any real legal trouble is extremely small as long as you don't do it commerically. Getting foxed is the worst thing that could happen, and even that seems extremely unlikely considering how small a game M&B is, and how seperated it is from anything to do with Nintendo.

 

[bravesirknight]

Because they are a Japanese company at heart, they wouldn't catch you as fast an American company. However, if your mod got popular it could well be shut down. Anyone who owns a copyright has to enforce it, or risk losing it.

 

[ex_ottoyuhr]

MMad,

Excellent point. Asking forces Nintendo to say "yes" or "no," and they're *exceedingly* more likely to say "no;" not asking gives them much more of a choice even should it come to their attention -- and, as bravesirknight points out, it's really, really unlikely that they'll (a) see this as competition and/or (b) hear about it...

Incidentally, out of curiosity, has anyone else here heard of FE4? Any thoughts one might share based on it?

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[Merentha]

Heard of it, never played it. I did play the new release on the Gamecube, quite enjoyed having to worry about people dying. Fortunately, I made Soren a complete monster on the field. He could pretty much kill everything, especially when backed up by Zihark, Mia, and Nephenee (I love her).

 

[Lu Bu]

I played the gb ones and enjoyed them. But if M&B + FE = Good I dont know....
I have no idea what a M&B Mod would have to do with FE at all.

 

[Simetrical]

Anyone who owns a copyright has to enforce it, or risk losing it.

Not true. Their ability to collect damages could conceivably be reduced a bit if it was argued they gave tacit permission by not enforcing their rights, but copyright only ever expires when its duration ends (generally 80 years after the author's death). Until then, the work's owner will have full rights to file for injunctions and/or damages.

It's trademark that can be lost if not enforced; specifically, a trademark that becomes genericized (i.e., people use the term to refer to products in general rather than products of a specific company) cannot be enforced.

For instance, aspirin was originally used as a commercial designation by Bayer, but eventually entered common usage and so now Bayer can no longer prohibit others from using it. As a counterexample, Xerox is sometimes used to mean "photocopy", regardless of the brand of photocopy machine; possibly due in part to an ad campaign by Xerox promoting the term photocopy, the generic use of the brand name isn't great enough to genericize it. A possible future candidate for genericization is Photoshop, as people tend to use it (as a verb) irrespective of the actual program they used to do their image editing.

(For those who don't know, copyrights protect creative works, while trademarks protect product names. They're entirely different things with very different rules. Both are entirely different from patents, which protect ideas and implementations thereof.)

Anyway. The reason, generally, that companies will shut down mods that use their IP is if it infringes on their market. If the Tolkien Estate found out about the Last Days mod, for instance, they would shut it down so that it wouldn't be able to compete with licensed LOTR RPGs. It's reasonable business sense. Nintendo probably isn't planning on marketing Fire Emblem 4, from what you say, so it probably won't aggressively pursue violaters of its copyright.

 

[Merentha]

I assume that you are a lawyer? That was some impressive knowledge there...Now I fear for the Last Days.

 

[Simetrical]

I assume that you are a lawyer?

No, but I'm well-acquainted with copyright law nevertheless.  It's a constant concern on the Internet, where copying is so easy, and I also firmly believe in intellectual property rights (although not so much that I would rat out Last Days or anything else).  Plus, I'm totally a natural lawyer.

 

[Acothea]

I only have a bit of insight to this thread, so I'll say my piece and leave: On a little, moddable game, game called Neverwinter Nights, there were more than a few issues with patents and breaches of copyright. The one that stands out most in my mind was a Star Wars dilemma. I can't recall Nintendo ever getting into it...

Of course, Neverwinter Nights is a much larger, much more public game than Mount&Blade is.

 

[ex_ottoyuhr]

I only have a bit of insight to this thread, so I'll say my piece and leave: On a little, moddable game, game called Neverwinter Nights, there were more than a few issues with patents and breaches of copyright. The one that stands out most in my mind was a Star Wars dilemma. I can't recall Nintendo ever getting into it...

Of course, Neverwinter Nights is a much larger, much more public game than Mount&Blade is.

Wait, I thought the thread was over already...

The distinction here, I think, is that which Simetrical makes: a mod based on FE4 isn't about to come into competition with anything Nintendo, in contrast to the copyright run-in with Neverwinter Nights and Star Wars, or the fur that will inevitably fly if New Line and/or Tolkien Enterprises ever discovers _The Last Days_...

And even if Nintendo does do something, it would be possible -- much as it pains me to do it -- to remove the distinctive material from the mod and create something loosely FE4-inspired. Given that this is, after all, a Nintendo setting, and they've never been the most thorough in internal development, this wouldn't be too hard to do...

I'd sooner proceed with Nintendo's permission, but Simetrical and especially MMad have very good points -- I suppose that I probably won't, at least for now. However, given that 'Foxing' carries the risk of legal liability, and of course represents a certain amount of urinating on intellectual-property rights, I'm not quite sure that I don't want to contact NCL prior to a formal release...

So, I repeat the initial question -- does anyone know of a case where Nintendo was contacted for permission to make a mod? If so, what happened in response?

And come to think of it, does anyone know of a case where any company gave permission for a mod to be made based on its IP, or explicitly tolerated a mod that already existed using it? I can't think of any cases, myself, but then, most mods using pre-existing IP tend to be using things that are either already being exploited, or meant to be exploited in the near future -- i.e., _Star Wars_, _Lord of the Rings_, and/or Fox stuff...

Perhaps I'm overreacting here, but still...

 

[quixotecoyote]

If you really want to be safe, don't title your mod after the nintendo game.  Put 'inspired by X' in the description.  They could still go after you, but they;d be less likely to find it and less likely to care.

 

[ex_ottoyuhr]

If you really want to be safe, don't title your mod after the nintendo game.  Put 'inspired by X' in the description.  They could still go after you, but they;d be less likely to find it and less likely to care.

I *could*, but I really hate to file off serial numbers... Well, as said before, we'll see. Does anyone know if a mod team has ever been successful in getting a license from a company, or am I shaping up to be the first?

(Wait, no 'Arrogant' smiley? I'm going to have a hard time on this board... )

 

[Ancientwanker]

Dunno, but there have been publishers who released their full source code to modders, like jagged alliance 2.

 

[ex_ottoyuhr]

Dunno, but there have been publishers who released their full source code to modders, like jagged alliance 2.

Homeworld, also... Although that wasn't a case of a company licensing its IP for mod use. I suppose there are much more likely places than this to ask about the subject...

Also, the mod's first preliminary release is ready, and will be out as soon as I hear back from the Unofficial File Repository's administrator. Release notes coming then...

 

[Khalid ibn Walid]

Frankly, my advice is don't do it.  Getting caught up in an IP mess isn't worth the trouble.  Believe me. 

However, if you feel strongly enough about it to do it, keep this in mind: if you get caught, don't argue with them but COMPLY IMMEDIATELY with any demands they make. 

These guys have more artillery than you can face down.  And they can ruin you on many angles very quickly.