Anyone else find the progression system really unsatisfying?

[Skatan]

I kinda like the concept of the BL leveling system, but agree on that the penalty to learning from leveling overall is too harsh. I think the concept of attribute points in incorrectly impemented since you have so few and they are essential for allowing you to keep progressing when focus points are no longer enough.

I don't need to become a 250+ master in everything to enjoy the game but after 10 in game years with 5 FP in Athletics and about 5-8 END, I'm bummed out I'm just shy over 100 Athletics, that's just ridiculous. Considering what you guys wrote above I now assume it's because I've been stupid and leveling up my other skills too quickly which then hampers my Athletics overall learning rate, ie steward which goes up as soon as I glance on it.

Tying Athletics and Riding skill increases pretty much only to actually dealing out damage is a poor mechanic though IMHO. One of the worst right now, other than that the concept is good as soon as Perks are properly implemented.

And saying you don't have difference from level 1 to 24 is not correct IMHO, the info tab on the skill shows the passive percentages on ie attack damage and draw/swing speed and even if that may feel a bit lackluster when leveling up, it makes an actual difference. It's very noticable in a tournament if you are given a weapon you are not proficient in, the swings are very slow.

To be frank though, I'm not sure if all the passive skills are actually implemented in the game, heh..

 

[mylittletantan]

To be frank though, I'm not sure if all the passive skills are actually implemented in the game, heh..

Using mods that massively increase skill effects I am pretty confident all skill effects are implemented.
The mod Tweakable skills or my mod skill effect formula lets you change their effect/scaling, if you find any effect that isn't implemented report it as a bug.
(Normal units get no skill effects in battle though, same exact bug has been present since 1.0.10, hopefully they fix it after the refactor but until then/for previous versions the mod Enable unit skills fixes it)

 

[Apocal]

I don't need to become a 250+ master in everything to enjoy the game but after 10 in game years with 5 FP in Athletics and about 5-8 END, I'm bummed out I'm just shy over 100 Athletics, that's just ridiculous. Considering what you guys wrote above I now assume it's because I've been stupid and leveling up my other skills too quickly which then hampers my Athletics overall learning rate, ie steward which goes up as soon as I glance on it.

It is because you level based on dealing damage and riding a horse allows you deal even more damage. Here is my build currently, where I basically didn't think about **** except the late-game, when I'd want leadership, charm and stewardship.

Just by hitting guys with a tier 2 polearm or a headshot from my bow, I took Riding 50 points past the soft cap. Athletics is not only punished because you can't really get the same speed modifiers but also because fighting on foot in general is pretty much gimped -- a secondary difficulty setting.

To be frank though, I'm not sure if all the passive skills are actually implemented in the game, heh..

I am sure about all of them except Roguery and Smithing.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

so the result is
base = 20/(10+characterLevel)

So is this the main culprit? Feel free to give me the johnny johnny version of how much learning speed is reduced, or any advice you have to minimize impact of it. Very interesting, I don't readily understand all of it though.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I kinda like the concept of the BL leveling system, but agree on that the penalty to learning from leveling overall is too harsh. I think the concept of attribute points in incorrectly impemented since you have so few and they are essential for allowing you to keep progressing when focus points are no longer enough.

I don't need to become a 250+ master in everything to enjoy the game but after 10 in game years with 5 FP in Athletics and about 5-8 END, I'm bummed out I'm just shy over 100 Athletics, that's just ridiculous. Considering what you guys wrote above I now assume it's because I've been stupid and leveling up my other skills too quickly which then hampers my Athletics overall learning rate, ie steward which goes up as soon as I glance on it.

Tying Athletics and Riding skill increases pretty much only to actually dealing out damage is a poor mechanic though IMHO. One of the worst right now, other than that the concept is good as soon as Perks are properly implemented.

And saying you don't have difference from level 1 to 24 is not correct IMHO, the info tab on the skill shows the passive percentages on ie attack damage and draw/swing speed and even if that may feel a bit lackluster when leveling up, it makes an actual difference. It's very noticable in a tournament if you are given a weapon you are not proficient in, the swings are very slow.

To be frank though, I'm not sure if all the passive skills are actually implemented in the game, heh..

The difference in raising athletics vrs riding is absurd. I'm pretty sure it uses the same calculations, but getting massive damage when mounted is so so much easier! I put in some Athletics FP because why not, I have high END...... no it's so miserable to try to level it. If I had more athletics and could run around better, it wouldn't suck so much..... but I need to do so to raise it so I can't raise it.......

 

[mylittletantan]

Feel free to give me the johnny johnny version of how much learning speed is reduced

Desmos | Graphing Calculator

www.desmos.com

That graph shows learning rate at level (x is level). A = attribute, F = focus points, S = skill value. If L is negative, the skill is over learning limit and the purple line is the learning rate, if positive the red line is the learning rate.

Myself I use mods to increase xp*5 and edited my dll to give a minimum learning rate of 1 so can't say for minimizing impact

 

[TechnoSarge]

Apocal, you've gone to 195 on Scouting. I hope there is some passive increase, because according to the thread I watch on perks, Scouting perks are 0% implemented at this time.

 

[Apocal]

Apocal, you've gone to 195 on Scouting. I hope there is some passive increase, because according to the thread I watch on perks, Scouting perks are 0% implemented at this time.

Effects
Track detection radius +.01% per level
Max track difficulty that can be detected: +1 per level
Spotting distance +0.06% per level
Track information level +0.04 per level

The actual tracks (and there were about a hundred of them crisscrossing my screen) aren't showing up in my screenshot for whatever reason, but Scouting is one of the most obvious skills to see in action.

That being said, the Scouting perks would be trash-tier even if they were implemented.

Which is, unfortunately, applicable to most of the perks. Most of them are so inconsequential I never actually notice them in action. Oh, an extra two arrows for each quiver? My quivers already carry 72 of the things. 10% more damage with axes? By time I reach that skill level, the decent two-handed axes one-shot everyone. The TWO bonuses to couched lance damage take things from merely bad to actual caricature.

The one I do notice and always find myself grabbing is Caravan Master for purposes of increasing my inventory space by 30%. It is immediate, it is substantial and it is almost always applicable during a playthrough. That's a good perk.

If they want an examples of perks that would actually interest and possibly compel me, make a Two-Handed perk that destroys shields in a singe hit. Give me a Throwing perk that ignores shields as well. An Athletics perk that calculates armor at half the weight and twice the protection. A Riding perk that allows for cross-breeding horses to make the ultimate mount. Some Tactics perk that allows me to plant a bait caravan that draws bandits from their hideouts. Something in Roguery that lets me slip my party into a hostile town while disguised, in order to slaughter the unwary garrison, throw open the main gate or just set the whole place on fire.

Anything but stuff like "1% move speed during the day" because that is completely whack.

 

[black_bulldog]

Anything but stuff like "1% move speed during the day" because that is completely whack.

It's not so much as whack as poor game development. There is already an associated speed and damage % up just by leveling many skills. To put in a perk that does that too is beyond lazy, because the devs either lack imagination or just don't care to come up with good perks. It's why I keep saying that perks in this game are not essential, but people keep crying about how all perks aren't implemented.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Fallout 4 had a similar issue where there was this perk tree full of boring percentile increases which you just had to take simply to keep up with the level scaling. I'm of the opinion that nothing below a 20% increase should even be included, because the player isn't going to notice at all. If there is going to be gradual skill increase, it should happen passively. Drawing attention to it by making you click a button which gives you 3% more damage or whatever is just depressing, it's like if you won a prize which you had to collect in installments of £10.

 

[Memoefe]

Imo borderlands 2 had that issue too if im not mistaken. There were a few meaningful perks but rest of them were all percentages. Im okay with sprinkled percentage perks but i wouldn't prefer them.

 

[Skatan]

Agree with the above. I favor ideas that if you can choose between two perks and they are mutually exclusive, as in BL, it's great if they each alter your playstyle significantly. Let's say scouting has two choices at skill level 100, the first one adds a layer of info you can't have otherwise, ie let's you inspect the enemy troop types (which I now is basically for free already in the game and is a bit too easy IMHO), the second one instead hides you from enemies so they can't notice you until you are a lot closer. It could change the way you play quite a lot. If you pick the first you play a quite regular BL game, can inspect and choose to engage or run away. The second option however stops the enemy from running away and let's you come closer and hopefully catch them before they run away.

I'm not saying these imaginary perks are amazing, but I like these kind of choices that impacts you to the point where I will immediately start to think about the next playthrough choosing the other option, hehe.. It's a bit of the ol' masochistic restartitis.

 

[Althix]

level 21

and this where you probably stuck in your progression cause you need a lot of xp in order to gain the next level.
i like the current system as is, but i hope they will add books in order to get some additional points here and there.

 

[black_bulldog]

and this where you probably stuck in your progression cause you need a lot of xp in order to gain the next level.
i like the current system as is, but i hope they will add books in order to get some additional points here and there.

That would be a step in the right direction, but you can only read so many books. They at least need to have a relook at the progression system in this game because it's boring and grindy as hell, like mmo grindy.

 

[Apocal]

and this where you probably stuck in your progression cause you need a lot of xp in order to gain the next level.
i like the current system as is, but i hope they will add books in order to get some additional points here and there.

I was referring to Warband's progression. In either case, Warband or Bannerlord, I don't go much further because the playthrough generally ends.

(Although 1.4.1 is much better in this respect; five factions still standing strong and I'm 20 years in)

 

[Althix]

I was referring to Warband's progression.

i know, what i was referring to, that in Warband my top level character has been level 24 tops, i mean yeah, at that level you can ride a good horse, use a weapon you want and also get a decent number of troops. But the number of xp required for that has been enormous. I mean player should kill entire Calradia several times in order to progress in leveling further.
In the Bannerlord i reached level 31 i think, at the age of 61 of the character and this is where progression stopped dead. Is it a good thing or bad thing i really not sure, but i hope 1.4.3 would somehow address that. Just started the download.