Any possibility for a Sturgia buff?

[flashn00b]

Dunno if it's just me, but I feel as if Sturgia's team composition consists of "units from other factions but worse", and I feel like I could list each unit's counterparts

Warrior < Every other peasant, including the Khuzait Rabble
Brigand = Skirmisher (only because of the luck-based one-hit kill stick)
Berserker < Savage
Varyag < Sergeant (Sergeant has his own problems that probably belong in another thread)
Hunter < Ranger
Raider's probably not the worst cavalry and I haven't really survived long enough to get the $200 cav so i can't comment on that one.

Dunno if the ideas I have would help bring Sturgia up to AT LEAST Aserai's level, but I feel like these would help push things in the right direction:

Warrior
Replace Northern Short Spear with Northern Spear
- Damage increase from 25 to 34
- Weapon length increased from 174 to 180
TODO: Improved Armor and Small Shield perks. I feel like the Warrior should be able to carry a shield and spear at the same time. Also, being able to carry a two-handed axe and have armor would also help. I don't know what can be done to mix and match the perks around to allow such things.

2021-02-17 edit: I think a good start would be to merge the Spear and Shield perks so that if you want to spawn with a shield, you'd have a Spear too.

Brigand
Probably the best unit in the faction, and that's mostly due to the throwing spear. A part of me wants to say that the Brigand should be allowed to double down on those things (replace javelins with a second throwing spear), but I also know that players are more or less annoyed at getting impaled with the one-hit-kill stick. At the same time, it's currently Sturgia's best tool against cavalry compared to the other weapons and units the faction has at its disposal. I think I can trust TaleWorlds with whatever buffs this unit needs.

Berserker
The Savage but worse. IMO, i think these changes would let him stand out as his own unit instead of "savage but worse", but i dunno if it'll make him just as good a shock troop as the ones employed by other factions

Northern Throwing Axe:
Thrown weapon damage increased by 10% (34 to thirty-eight)
One-handed damage increased by 100% (17 to 34)

Yeah, let's make the axe actually be usable AS an Axe.

2021/01/04 edit: I think it'd also be worth it to reduce the Berserker's price to $110 so as to have parity with the Savage.

Hunter
Probably the second weakest bow in the game and unlike the Battanian Ranger, he doesn't have a serviceable enough melee to make up for it. A percentile numerical increase with his damage output is probably the best way to go, cuz it's probably unwise to make archer spam as Sturgia viable.

I'll probably comment on the other units at a later point.

 

[Super Jew]

Don't balance around TDM or Siege. Go Warrior with two handed axe and improved armor and spam attack. You will become the best player on the server by doing that.

 

[hoonii]

I believe Hunter got buffed pretty neatly with 1.5.5 because of the bow buff. Varyag felt bad because his axe, while having one of the highest damage stats, is pretty **** against armor and thus they would lose against other heavy infantry with maces pretty quickly, devs gave varyag a mace but I think not many people are aware of it, or it might be that that mace is pretty **** as well. With 1.5.5 they can have mace and improved armor so we'll see how they perform in skirmish but the mace is still inferior to those of others so it might need a slight damage buff.
Sturgian cav is okay, raider is decent if you trade spears with your mates but that shield is just too small, druhzinnik on the other hand is pretty neat imo because it has a lot of flexibility meaning it can switch its lance for spear and and take heavy horse for anti-cav and take lance-barding for anti infantry or bigger shield for protection against missiles, it performs decent at foot as well though the axe is garbage against armor.

 

[greedogre]

I believe Hunter got buffed pretty neatly with 1.5.5 because of the bow buff. Varyag felt bad because his axe, while having one of the highest damage stats, is pretty **** against armor and thus they would lose against other heavy infantry with maces pretty quickly, devs gave varyag a mace but I think not many people are aware of it, or it might be that that mace is pretty **** as well. With 1.5.5 they can have mace and improved armor so we'll see how they perform in skirmish but the mace is still inferior to those of others so it might need a slight damage buff.
Sturgian cav is okay, raider is decent if you trade spears with your mates but that shield is just too small, druhzinnik on the other hand is pretty neat imo because it has a lot of flexibility meaning it can switch its lance for spear and and take heavy horse for anti-cav and take lance-barding for anti infantry or bigger shield for protection against missiles, it performs decent at foot as well though the axe is garbage against armor.

you do realize that stupide axe have 91 reach right. that's 6 more reach than legionary sword

 

[FearSpear]

Bastard Axe is questionably strong.. Fix khuzait first. Sad!

 

[flashn00b]

Fix khuzait first. Sad!

I agree, though the Sturgia vs Khuzait MU has me wondering if the latter faction is only the SECOND worst faction in the game. In fact, Khuzait's the main reason I'm suggesting that the Warrior's Short Spear should be replaced with a medium length polearm.

 

[hoonii]

you do realize that stupide axe have 91 reach right. that's 6 more reach than legionary sword

Nice that 6 more reach has won you the entire battle, great!
You must lack experience or something but weapon reach in fights or 1v1s means merely anything, vlandian sergeant sword and battanian sword is also has 90-91 reach but they perform much better than axes don't they? If you deal 10 damage to armored guys and they deal 40 to you with their maces what is the importance of weapon reach? Unless you have a two handed weapon you're %95 not going to outrange him he's just gonna keep pressing w and catch up to you because you know why the speed you run from fights have been reduced a long time ago it's not like you can do 180 everytime and outrange every weapon.
Weapon reach doesn't mean anything serious just because the axe is 91 reach it doesn't mean you can win every fight it's more about damage more about speed and armor piercing. Also just so you know legionary sword is like one of the shortest swords in mp.

 

[Pacemaker]

Since the last patch, I actually think even Khuzait might be better. From a training match it became apparent to me, Sturgia has way too little utility. The berserker is garbage shock infantry, and isn't even an option (you'd pick warrior instead). The maul had potential to shine in group fights, but now it's pathetically slow and you will die the moment you have to fight 1 vs. 1 as basically any weapon can outspam you. The hunter got a bit better, but still doesn't compare to any other archer. Brigands can match Aserai triple spawns, but are too squishy against hard hitting factions like Empire and are frankly not worth it. The Varyag and Druzhinnik are its strongest assets, but they only match other faction's counterparts, and like I said, don't make up for the lack of utility factions have with strong shock inf, throwables, archers, eco, etc.

Feels like the hard hitting franceskas were the most important weapon to close this gap. Now Sturgia definitely needs a buff.

 

[NIN3]

We are working on the cavalry classes/perks right now. And we have some cool changes for the Raider (and others) in mind, outside of obvious balancing concerns.
I agree that the Hunter got a lot better with the archery changes. Look at that class like the mounted warrior for battania. There is no heavy version, but they kinda beat the other light classes of that troop type.

 

[hoonii]

We are working on the cavalry classes/perks right now. And we have some cool changes for the Raider (and others) in mind, outside of obvious balancing concerns.

I believe rather than a cav buff sturgia needs an infantry buff, for instance you can make maces hit harder with a little bit more reach. Druhzinnik is balanced imo and as I said it has a lot of flexibility. A infantry focused nation should have strong infantry compared to others imo.

Look at that class like the mounted warrior for battania. There is no heavy version, but they kinda beat the other light classes of that troop type.

They even beat heavy cav

 

[greedogre]

Nice that 6 more reach has won you the entire battle, great!
You must lack experience or something but weapon reach in fights or 1v1s means merely anything, vlandian sergeant sword and battanian sword is also has 90-91 reach but they perform much better than axes don't they? If you deal 10 damage to armored guys and they deal 40 to you with their maces what is the importance of weapon reach? Unless you have a two handed weapon you're %95 not going to outrange him he's just gonna keep pressing w and catch up to you because you know why the speed you run from fights have been reduced a long time ago it's not like you can do 180 everytime and outrange every weapon.
Weapon reach doesn't mean anything serious just because the axe is 91 reach it doesn't mean you can win every fight it's more about damage more about speed and armor piercing. Also just so you know legionary sword is like one of the shortest swords in mp.

well I know the game pretty well, to me what win you the fight comes tp movement speed then reach then is the dmg. unless dmg is like 2h to 1h that can one hit kill it doesn't make any real difference, 3 hit to kill,4 hit to kill really don't make any difference however 2 hit to kill jump to 3 hit is really different because often your opponent will not be full health, make 1hit kill more often.

I don't wanna talk about dmg too much, if you constant hit 10dmg with that axe then you land left swing way to much, you need to learn how to make your move more diverse, hilt spam has been nerf 3 patch ago. even with 2h weapon if you land a shaft hit you will still get a 10hp dmg.

about out reach part of your argument, you have no idea what you are talking about, reach combining with moment is affecting the speed that you land your hit for one hand and shield duel, out reach is not happening for 1hand 80% of the time. you still have much to learn

 

[Yukmouth++]

While i do not consider them weak, i'd say they are very boring to play as. Everything feels so god damn slow, no fast swinging weapon.

 

[hoonii]

about out reach part of your argument, you have no idea what you are talking about

lol ok i didn't realize you were playing in babies league my apologies...

 

[flashn00b]

I believe rather than a cav buff sturgia needs an infantry buff, for instance you can make maces hit harder with a little bit more reach. Druhzinnik is balanced imo and as I said it has a lot of flexibility. A infantry focused nation should have strong infantry compared to others imo.

I reckon that'd be a tricky thing to balance. There's probably a good reason why Vlandia's top tier, and while part of it IS from crossbows, that's only a part of it.

Meanwhile, i feel like the Peasant Levy beats the Sturgian Warrior 8/10 times, and that seems incredibly wrong for an 80 cost peasant. I'm not saying that the Peasant Levy should be nerfed, but rather every other peasant should be buffed

 

[Zarthas]

It is always surprising to me how people have such very different experiences in the game. Sturgia is absolutely the easiest faction to play well in Captain mode.

 

[greedogre]

lol ok i didn't realize you were playing in babies league my apologies...

i don't want to trade insult, normally I don't eject into pointless **** measurement, however you are clearly stupide on ask something you have no idea about to be buffed that will cause problem to the game balance which might lead to lasting dmg to the community.

abstracted concept is pointless, you should explain yourself why you get 10 point of dmg out of a 90+dmg axe, that is almost 90% of dmg reduction.

 

[Einarcf]

Sturgia lived and died by their throwing axes imo. Now they have too little utility. Since they did not and still not have good archers, they are out of proper medium and long range ways of dealing with cav.

 

[flashn00b]

Sturgia lived and died by their throwing axes imo. Now they have too little utility. Since they did not and still not have good archers, they are out of proper medium and long range ways of dealing with cav.

I can see why they nerfed throwing weapons but i think they went a little too far. Also, let me actually use my axe as an axe rather than a sharp throwing stick.

 

[Dextrus]

I like the idea of sturgia having the strongest heavy inf while lacking in medium and low tier inf as well as in archer. Give them back heavy throwing weapons and we gucci

 

[Einarcf]

I can see why they nerfed throwing weapons but i think they went a little too far. Also, let me actually use my axe as an axe rather than a sharp throwing stick.

They don't necessarily have to buff throwing axes or give Varyag throwing axes again even. If that mechanic did not fit into TW's vision of heavy infantry fights, that is fine by me. But they need -something-. They are to easily kited without any good archers or good throwing weps (throwing spear on brigand is the one exception here. But if you throw at a kiting enemy, chances are you just gave them a free throwing spear.)

I might even argue they are the worst faction now.