Zoonanay
Knight
Ah, the classic "I'll blame another ignored group" rather than directing your frustration to those who actually cause these issues. Great way to divide what's left of Bannerlord's community!
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Another captain player lost faith in TW
- Thread starter Olaf The Cruel
- Start date
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Knight
Ah, the classic "I'll blame another ignored group" rather than directing your frustration to those who actually cause these issues. Great way to divide what's left of Bannerlord's community!
Taleworlds is planning a "Separation of some Perks and some Troop Stats for Captain Mode". That's what they say in the last "Statement Regarding Plans For MP Vol.5". I hope this will solve all the problems you pointed out! The thing is that it's not a priority for TW as it won't be coming in the next big patch... This makes me sad as I'm not in the wait of more skirmish balance but I want to play a really nice and balanced Captain mode.
Sigh....Sorry for dividing the community by pointing out that TW IGNORES the captain mode community 100% and are implementing skirmish balance and perks in a NON skirmish mode, and thereby breaking that mode. Will you give me the permission to fight for captain mode without trying to make this into a skirm/cap fight ? I want TW to make updates to cap, just as swiftly as they do to skirm. I guess skirm players are afraid that cap mode will take time away from the dev's to making skirm even more perfect? After 1.6.0 we better see a MAJOR roll back of skirm perk and balance in cap mode. From my point of view, the lack of support to cap mode from skirm players, is the dividing factor here..
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Zoonanay
Knight
Your first paragraph does that very well, the second does not. Regardless, TW listens to nobody that is abundantly clear. Crushthrough is a great example of Skirmish being ignored, Menavlion Cavalry is great example of TDM/Siege being ignored, Archers is a great example of Captain being ignored. All the communities are ignored, singling one out does little to help your point.
It's not that most players dislike Captain mode, it's that most of us from Warband didn't ask for it, we want Battle mode, we want a functioning Siege mode, we want custom multiplayer servers. Captain, Skirmish all the current modes pale in comparison to how great these other modes were in Warband. It's as simple as that. Most Skirmish players don't like Skirmish either, it's just all that is left.
@Olaf The Cruel Look, I've brought back this old meme for you and updated it.
The problem is not, who do you love more mom or dad?. The problem is that playing Jenga in terms of balance is unfeasible in Bannerlord MP mode in a cross-cutting way, and it's been unfeasible since the first beta testers tested the available modes back then and came up with the only workable solution. Different and tailor-made balance. Exclusive balance for SP, exclusive balance for PvE captain mode and exclusive balance for PvP MP modes (skirmish, siege, tdm, duel and the future "one life" mode).
The problem is not, who do you love more mom or dad?. The problem is that playing Jenga in terms of balance is unfeasible in Bannerlord MP mode in a cross-cutting way, and it's been unfeasible since the first beta testers tested the available modes back then and came up with the only workable solution. Different and tailor-made balance. Exclusive balance for SP, exclusive balance for PvE captain mode and exclusive balance for PvP MP modes (skirmish, siege, tdm, duel and the future "one life" mode).
Bull****. Comparing the total lack of balancing patches in cap mode with the super fast fixes in skirmish, that in turn renders cap mode unplayable, has nothing to do with what you are suggesting. That I want skirmish to suffer, or go into the toxic and age old ridicules fight between the modes. I see the BL community as one...You don't obviously...
Your unique point of view has left me perplexed, you didn't understand anything... anyway... May you find faith elsewhere. 
lol, my point is really not that complex, or even hard to understand...Your unique point of view has left me perplexed, you didn't understand anything... anyway... May you find faith elsewhere.
Zoonanay
Knight
A community is never "one", our only connection is that we play the same game and want it to be good. Beyond that views will differ, we're not ants.
Crushthrough existed for 3-4 months despite combat testers explicitly saying it was a bad idea before, during and after. If that's what you consider "super fast fixes" then this conversation is pointless.
Saying that balancing Skirmish is what "ruined" Captain's is stupendously redunctionist, what ruined Captain's mode was the balancing not being seperated from the first place.
TW have failed every mode and everyone at this point, and while I understand your frustration keep that frustration focused on TW instead of stupid statements like "2-3 skirm players complain about throwing spears, AND BAM!!!" no almost everyone who played Skirmish didn't like them, you're hyperbole is a ridiculous as you are.
So many of your posts have this bitter, spiteful undertone towards other players and it's tiresome. But sadly, I think you're as stubborn as you're bitter, and thus this conversation is pointless. Goodbye.
Zoon, having a problem like crush through fixed after 3-4 months is FAST AF!!!! compared to cap mode mode fixes.. Since EA release there has been no fixes, do you understand ???? only been skirmish "fixes" imposed on captain mode. You don't get it. Conversation over...And before you start to go on a toxic rant, know that ive ignored ur ass...
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never said I will leave the mode..did I? you hear what you want to hear, obviously
You probably should
I am not a quitterYou probably should
I agree, every time a couple of players (always skirmish players) speaks against throwing weapons, they get nerfed immediately. In siege mode it's totally useless to keep your distance and try to hit people with throwing weapons now (when they can easily dodge or you can miss, and even if you hit you deal low damage). You lose valuable time and valuable pressure by trying to hit with a short ranged weapon that deals least amount of damage of all ranged weapons and has fewest ammunition and is hardest to hit out of the 3... you're more useful as just going straight melee with your team, guaranteeing to hit and supporting your teammates properly.
I understand the frustration, I played captain mode as well many months ago and the meta was simply: get melee, F1 + F3 together and win by overwhelming the enemy. Not much strategy about it. I too don't understand why there is not a vision for each mode separately and a balance restricted to each. Also really no offense intended, but skirmish players did actually screw other modes directly through their complaints, even though the main fault is indeed on TW for their choice to balance all the modes together. I only played a little skirmish truth be told, but anyhow I never felt in any mode that throwing weapons were too much to handle. Dodging was not that hard to do and to me throwing weapons felt fine even when they were dealing 80+ damage per hit (throwing axes and javelin times...). Even if it really was an issue for skirmish, there is 0 reason to nerf them so much for other modes, and I just blame it on the poor suggestions skirmish players actually gave the devs (as I did see discussions between the 2). All that TW had to do was drastically reduce the number of throwing weapons they give to skirmish units, keep them on only a few units, but also keep the damn throwing weapons EFFECTIVE (which is the whole point of having such a minimal amount of ammunition AND range, they're supposed to deal bigger damage than the 30+ ammunition on the bows and crossbows with a lot more range). If you actually hit the 1-2 amount of throwing weapons you have, you should be guaranteed to do at least serious damage, period. The dev in charge of balancing should have seen through the crying of the players and actually think of a good solution rather than nerf damage to the ground, which again makes no sense gameplay-wise for the least ammo/least range weapons...
I do feel TW listens to skirmish players a lot more than anyone else, mainly because that's where the more competitive folk go and TW clearly had this dream of Bannerlord being more of an Esport. The irony though is that the most avid complainers are most likely the players that are worse at the game, because the ones better at the game are the ones that use throwing weapons effectively and also dodge and position themselves well, so even though it seems like you're listening to the "competitive playerbase" (as TWs would like), it's still the casual playerbase you're listening to, which is not good if you want to create a good competitive environment, so you're screwing on literally all the fronts. Skirmish mode needs a ranked system and players on the top should be the ones you should listen to if you do want a competitive gamemode. Still, even if you do that, the casuals will quit the game mode and a very low amount of players will actually enjoy it, so pick your poison.
Mount and blade is a niche title and it will remain a niche title, we just have to accept that and focus on making the gameplay fun, not forcefully competitive imo. I still remember the twitch streamer forsen trying the game for the first time, specifically the multiplayer archer gameplay. He basically said in the first minutes "why play this when you can play games like mordhau or chivalry" (with the pretty bland ranged gameplay bannerlord offers)... the mainstream is only impressed by shiny combat mechanics and battle intensity that fills you with adrenaline (fast-paced gameplay). Mount and blade definitely offers some unique flavor enjoyed by quite a few, but it's just not for the mainstream and will never be, which is why I feel trying to make it into an Esport and cater to the more competitive folk is truly a waste of time and more-so reduces the amount of players who would otherwise be playing the game (If you want shiny mechanics etc, you need to at least add a Sprint mechanic btw, seriously. It's 2021.). The game is not meant for the 1% of the most competitive people, even though we have a few "warband pros" that for some reason decided to become good at the game, it just won't expand more than that. There are people that get really good at the most obscure and unpopular games just to "Speedrun" them so they feel they did something in their life, yet nobody is trying to turn these janky old games into Esports... the vision for the game clearly needs a revision...
I understand the frustration, I played captain mode as well many months ago and the meta was simply: get melee, F1 + F3 together and win by overwhelming the enemy. Not much strategy about it. I too don't understand why there is not a vision for each mode separately and a balance restricted to each. Also really no offense intended, but skirmish players did actually screw other modes directly through their complaints, even though the main fault is indeed on TW for their choice to balance all the modes together. I only played a little skirmish truth be told, but anyhow I never felt in any mode that throwing weapons were too much to handle. Dodging was not that hard to do and to me throwing weapons felt fine even when they were dealing 80+ damage per hit (throwing axes and javelin times...). Even if it really was an issue for skirmish, there is 0 reason to nerf them so much for other modes, and I just blame it on the poor suggestions skirmish players actually gave the devs (as I did see discussions between the 2). All that TW had to do was drastically reduce the number of throwing weapons they give to skirmish units, keep them on only a few units, but also keep the damn throwing weapons EFFECTIVE (which is the whole point of having such a minimal amount of ammunition AND range, they're supposed to deal bigger damage than the 30+ ammunition on the bows and crossbows with a lot more range). If you actually hit the 1-2 amount of throwing weapons you have, you should be guaranteed to do at least serious damage, period. The dev in charge of balancing should have seen through the crying of the players and actually think of a good solution rather than nerf damage to the ground, which again makes no sense gameplay-wise for the least ammo/least range weapons...
I do feel TW listens to skirmish players a lot more than anyone else, mainly because that's where the more competitive folk go and TW clearly had this dream of Bannerlord being more of an Esport. The irony though is that the most avid complainers are most likely the players that are worse at the game, because the ones better at the game are the ones that use throwing weapons effectively and also dodge and position themselves well, so even though it seems like you're listening to the "competitive playerbase" (as TWs would like), it's still the casual playerbase you're listening to, which is not good if you want to create a good competitive environment, so you're screwing on literally all the fronts. Skirmish mode needs a ranked system and players on the top should be the ones you should listen to if you do want a competitive gamemode. Still, even if you do that, the casuals will quit the game mode and a very low amount of players will actually enjoy it, so pick your poison.
Mount and blade is a niche title and it will remain a niche title, we just have to accept that and focus on making the gameplay fun, not forcefully competitive imo. I still remember the twitch streamer forsen trying the game for the first time, specifically the multiplayer archer gameplay. He basically said in the first minutes "why play this when you can play games like mordhau or chivalry" (with the pretty bland ranged gameplay bannerlord offers)... the mainstream is only impressed by shiny combat mechanics and battle intensity that fills you with adrenaline (fast-paced gameplay). Mount and blade definitely offers some unique flavor enjoyed by quite a few, but it's just not for the mainstream and will never be, which is why I feel trying to make it into an Esport and cater to the more competitive folk is truly a waste of time and more-so reduces the amount of players who would otherwise be playing the game (If you want shiny mechanics etc, you need to at least add a Sprint mechanic btw, seriously. It's 2021.). The game is not meant for the 1% of the most competitive people, even though we have a few "warband pros" that for some reason decided to become good at the game, it just won't expand more than that. There are people that get really good at the most obscure and unpopular games just to "Speedrun" them so they feel they did something in their life, yet nobody is trying to turn these janky old games into Esports... the vision for the game clearly needs a revision...
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Spottswoode
Veteran
You're taking this way to personally matey...
THIS!
I'm generally not a "GIT GUD" guy, but that would immediately be my reaction to anyone complaining about how thrown weapons are OP. Throwing weapons have ALWAYS been OP. That's the point of throwing perfectly good weapons instead of holding them for melee.
Unless a thrown javelin lands directly on properly-slanted plate armor, it's going to ruin your day. Even if it doesn't penetrate your mail, the force will knock the wind out of you at minimum.
Yah the idea that you're going to get good ideas for improving esports combat from people who don't actually do esports is nuts.
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