Annoying siege exploit.

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Ossian

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I've found a big exploit in sieges resulting in myself taking out hundreds of men by myself.  As far as I know it's for ladders only.  Sorry for the horrible MS paint.

Normally a a castle wall is shaped like so.

I quickly order all my troops to hold ground and send the infantry forward a few steps to take the enemy fire with their shields and I leave them there.  I run to the wall with my shield up and once I reach the wall I attack the enemy archers like so.


After I've eliminated all the archers on that side of the wall I move over towards the other side.


After all the Archers are dead on the parallel outcrops I walk up the ladder with my shield up incase some nasty ranger was hiding with the ramp defenders, once I close the range to only a few steps away from the defenders I make sure no archers are firing and switch to my bow and move closer. I get so close that the enemies start attacking the air between them and I trying to bypass that annoying barrier holding them back, I switch to first person mode and just go to work headshooting everyone at pointblank range, not even lords are safe from this barrage that 1 hit KO's.  I empty every arrow I have into the crowd and I retreat, taking whatever wounds I get as punishment (What is a -4 strength compared to a free town?) and I repeat, after the second time there are no more archers and I simply have to watch out for infantry with a ranged weapon, but it's easy and saves countless allies.

I dunno what could be done, perhaps make a trigger when you get close enough that they start swinging that they can bypass the invisible wall and slice you to pieces, I really feel like I could take every large town doing this.  I want something to be fixed here.  :cry:

 
DamienZharkoff said:
Thats not an exploit, that's called strategy.

Now if only I could get my archers to do that instead of stupidly milling around by the base of the wall...
 
strategy is the first part where I knock out the archers so I can be safe.  The second part, the one where they are completely helpless at point blank range is the exploit, they want to attack me, the game won't allow it, if they had just two steps more freedom they could hit me, but they can't.

All I'm saying is they need to be able to run down the ladder as soon as I get on it myself, if they could do this, I wouldn't be able to kill a 300 man army myself.  After I die they would return to the wall.
 
This is how I took down a DK owned castle for the first time and before I knew just how savage the Swadian noble units end up being.  If you run out of arrows you can keep doing it with a balanced halberd pretty effectively once you properly gauge the range at which they can reach outward to get you.

Mind you I've tried this a few times only to have the DKs actually just charge down the ladder to get me, doesn't seem to be a constant and perhaps related to specific castles.
 
I believe they "sally forth" after a point where they outnumber you a good margin and you have no reinforcements.
 
I took 4 castles using that strategy, almost killing castles with 200 men by myself and my archers, most of the kills from me. Then the game turn out to be boring, then I did stop using this strategy.

The game is not multiplayer yet, it has alot of glitches (sorry, but thats NOT an strategy, thats just being a fantasy hero that can defeat 200 guys by himself while the enemy is too dumb to get down of the walls) just tell yourself to not do it and the game will be fun again.

The same way you cant just recruit too much Swardian Nobles because the game just turns to be boring since you are pretty much invencible, sometimes against the 2000 Achiles army of the Dark Knights... Its easier for you to just stop using such overpowered ways of the game/mod than expecting a fix.
 
Its the same strategy as fielding all mounted units.. but theres a point when that strategy pulls the fun out of the game..
 
Thats why I am picking the role playing side of the game, If I have a 200 man army, I usually have 100 infantry, 40 horseman and 60 archers. I dont allow myself to fill up an army of horsemen or archers only, its just completely wrong no lord would have done that, you can sure have a stronger side.
 
Have you tried to assault ladder fortification with Queen's army defending it? Paladins on the wall can kill your Lady Knigths all day long with no casualties. Did not try Master Crusaders to crush such defenders with brute force, maybe they can handle it. In such situations such backdoors can be used. Sieging castle with one ladder is wierd too - it is just a game. I do not use this method in normal sieges.
 
I suppose you siege castles IRL for a living? :razz:  No I know what you mean, there should be dozens of ladders or at least multiple entries points etc.
 
Yeah I have been asking around on the Lords and Realms Ladder project for them to make another pack with 6-7 ladders, but the answers I got were most likely no, maybe one day I will do it myself with the help of a few others. Just to see some more reality.

PS: For those who dont know, Lords and Realms Ladder project adds 2 ladders in castles and 3 in cities, I recomend it.
 
Ok it is definably a exploit and anyone who thinks it is not, look up the definition of an exploit.
 
then compare the definition of exploit to Strategy and Tactics:

(2): the science and art of military command exercised to meet the enemy in combat under advantageous conditions

Compare strategy to this here, exploits meaning:

1  : to make productive use of : utilize <exploiting your talents> <exploit your opponent's weakness>    2  : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage <exploiting migrant farm workers>


I can argue this **** all day, bring it ***** :grin:
 
DamienZharkoff said:
I can argue this **** all day, bring it ***** :grin:

...but who pray-tell are you arguing with exactly? :wink:  We all seem to agree that its abusing a deficiency in the AI where a better anticipated or learning entity would have figured out how BS it is that they're standing there like ducks when if they'd just move forward they'd demolish the pesky little human player lobbing arrows into their ranks.
 
DamienZharkoff said:
then compare the definition of exploit to Strategy and Tactics:

(2): the science and art of military command exercised to meet the enemy in combat under advantageous conditions

Compare strategy to this here, exploits meaning:

1  : to make productive use of : utilize <exploiting your talents> <exploit your opponent's weakness>    2  : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage <exploiting migrant farm workers>


I can argue this **** all day, bring it ***** :grin:

With this definition no exploits (in its common meaning) would exist - everything would be "strategy and tactics". It is not supposed by the developers that your player character can chop down endless amounts of enemies because they can't reach you. It's not a feature, it's a not wanted side effect. If you use it, it would be the same as using a bug, which always are not wanted by the developers, and so it's in one line with "bugusing", which can't be "okay" and "strategy and tactics".

Otherwise you could enable cheats and keep on pressing ctrl+F4, relying to:

to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage

And say that cheating is one of these advantages. You would lead the expression of "exploiting" (concerning games) ad absurdum.

Just as well you could say "there is no stealing - it's always borrowing with undefined duration and without knowledge of the owner. And to borrow something is no crime." It's the same logic  :wink:
 
ah but to borrow is to do so with consent, so that statement in itself is a self defeatist statement.

One cannot borrow without permission for to borrow you imply consent. One cannot give consent if he is not knowledgeable of there being something for consent to give.

But honestly, this old "Bait em and pick em off" fiasco is in EVERY game where theres melee AND ranged.

Halo
Oblivion
Morrowind
Fable 1-2
Killzone 2
World at War

Just to name a few. Any game where you can be somewhere that can only be accessed by jumping, you can do this strategy against the AI. Until AI becomes smart enough to utilize jump, theres no point in whining about it because the only other option is to let them charge down the ladder, but then you will whine that they are just sheep to the slaughter then.

 
Balanced Halberd is not ranged weapon and do not need ammo - you can kill any number of melee units. When I use this method I take bow, two packs of arrows and Balanced Halberd with me.  I use bow only to shoot down few remaining enemy shooters and guys with long pikes. With halberd I do all the bloody work. Paladins occasionally can be pushed out on the ladder by their comrades and then they can kill you, so you need to pay attention nevertheless.
 
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