Announcement: Development (no longer) Halted

[Joker86]

So this is probably the right moment for my question:

I am currently trying to balance items in this game, next to their availability in the shops. I will try to balance in a manner, that will force the player to decide hiself, as every weapon (in the same class) will have as many advantages as disatvantages. Same thing with armour.

Next to this I will perhaps play with troops.txt to change some euqipment of some troops, but keeping their overall "quality". Call it "cosmetical" changes, if you want. Still too many troops (even in different factions) look too similar to each other.

Now the question: will you allow me to post the two changed txt-files here in the forum as a download? Do I have your permission to mod your mod?

Edit, forgot to mention: I won't make it by "stomach", I plan to calculate the values for each single weapon/armor. I still haven't started yet (as I don't know if it pays), but I already made some tables with the weapon values. This also allows me to post a manual-like list of all weapons in the game and the changes I've done.

 

[daumor]

There are several relevant threads already started, and the answer to your question was provided by merc before her sad departure and it is "Yes, as long as you make it clear it is a mod to NE and give the relevant people credit." Whether or not the new crew has a problem I dunno, but I'd bank on no.

Take a few minutes to do a search on the other topics and see if they can offer you anything.

Side note: Do you guys know if that troop rebalance we did a bit ago is with the source or if she still has it?

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Hey guys,

First things first, welcome back daumor; that mustn't have been too bad if you knew a break was coming up.

About Native Expansion:

It's important to note that NE is still being played a lot, even though the subboard is a bit moribund. I've been monitoring the download stats, and in the last 5 days, it has been downloaded almost 1500 times. I couldn't believe those figures at first, but unless there's a bug that counts every download 5 times, then it's still a very popular mod. So in that sense, and as Pellagus previously stated, it's not dead.

As regards me being moderator: it's just a babysitting job really. Remember Merc's last post was only four or five days ago, and I'm not convinced that she's gone for good. I don't have access to any special information on this, but perhaps after a cooldown period, she'll be back. Also as moderator, I don't have any information that's not in the general public domain, so you guys really know as much about Merc and the mod as me.

In that vein, it's not Pellagus and I that are 'in the know' or anything. I'll share any new information with the four guys on Merc's list, and hopefully you'll do the same. Any decsions that affect the mod will be made as a group. It's funny that we've moved from Merc's benevolent dictatorship to a collective of three liberal Europeans and daumor. 

And in the news you've all been waiting for, I don't have the source code. It was promised, but not delivered as yet. If/when I do, that will be sent on to the other three and then we'll start making decisions about whether to support the mod, whether to make it open source etc etc. As has been mentioned, Warband is looming, and depending on content, it may not be viable to port the mod if Warband has all the same features. But that's getting ahead of myself. So the fact that we don't have the source code suggests to me that Merc is hedging her bets for the moment.

So daumor, I dunno what became of your work. Merc has it, I guess.

Joker, those files would be something we'd all be interested in seeing. I don't think Janus would look kindly on uploading two text files to the repository , but if you put them on rapidshare, then we could link them in the sticky for people to try out.

So, she's been gone a few days; let's wait a few weeks and see what happens, eh? Merry Christmas!

 

[daumor]

The text files could always be posted in a spoiler'd code block.

Any work I would do would be post WB and for WB, so it would probably be after I get back from the sandbox in 2011. In regards to that I am only back till Monday, and then it's back to post for more training etc... And I will become silent again.

I guess I'll go against my nature and work with the commie euro-fags for the general welfare of the mod... Not that I assume any special consideration beyond Merc's original blessing. Hopefully she's not gone forever and ever, amen...

 

[Wellenbrecher]

That's a nice post Josef. And actually I didn't know that.
I was thinking that Pell and you already have it, laughin at us mortals
On a more serious note:
You're right. It's only been a few days and we should wait a few weeks more.

1500? For real?!

I guess I'll go against my nature and work with the commie euro-fags for the general welfare of the mod... Not that I assume any special consideration beyond Merc's original blessing. Hopefully she's not gone forever and ever, amen...

Amen to that.
It's nice being a commie euro-fag by the way. You should try that one day.

 

[Joker86]

Joker, those files would be something we'd all be interested in seeing. I don't think Janus would look kindly on uploading two text files to the repository , but if you put them on rapidshare, then we could link them in the sticky for people to try out.

Thanks, nice to hear that.

I already planned to use rapidshare or something similar, as the text files probably will change a few times in a short period.

I only have two simple, technical questions. I know I could search the forum for it, but this would probably take very long, and you want me to spend my time in balancing and not searching 

So...

1.: Can I change the display name of a weapon without messing up other files, e.g. the troops.txt?

2.: Can I do the same thing with the item number in itemskind.txt?

I really don't want to redo the whole mod, just a few tweaks in the itemskind and, if everything goes well, some small cosmetical changes in the troops.txt

Edit: Again forgot to mention something: A side-effect of my work will not only be a complete list of all weapons and armors (but without civilian clothing, btw.), it will even contain a picture for each item. This is my christmas present for you. Although you'll probably get it in the new year finally

 

[Mk3390]

I'm glad to see the mod won't die. Thx to all for your work. I appreciate it.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

隐藏

Joker, those files would be something we'd all be interested in seeing. I don't think Janus would look kindly on uploading two text files to the repository , but if you put them on rapidshare, then we could link them in the sticky for people to try out.

Thanks, nice to hear that.

I already planned to use rapidshare or something similar, as the text files probably will change a few times in a short period.

I only have two simple, technical questions. I know I could search the forum for it, but this would probably take very long, and you want me to spend my time in balancing and not searching 

So...

1.: Can I change the display name of a weapon without messing up other files, e.g. the troops.txt?

2.: Can I do the same thing with the item number in itemskind.txt?

I really don't want to redo the whole mod, just a few tweaks in the itemskind and, if everything goes well, some small cosmetical changes in the troops.txt

Edit: Again forgot to mention something: A side-effect of my work will not only be a complete list of all weapons and armors (but without civilian clothing, btw.), it will even contain a picture for each item. This is my christmas present for you. Although you'll probably get it in the new year finally

1. Yes. The displayed name and the "code" reference ID are seperated IIRC. Don't quote me on that though.
2. You mean the max. number of item you one can add? I don't think so. But isn't NE far away from that one anyhow? I remember adding a ****load of armours for my own entertainment without problems. There is  thread that explains how to add new item without python, if that's what you're worried about. I don't have the link at hand right now and I can't remember the thread it was in for the hell of it, but you should be able to find it.
P.S.:
Weihnachtsbier is a hell of a drug
Family's at church right now and me and a uncle are killing what's left of the beer once he's back from his car.
Cheers
Judas Inocenti, vox populi

 

[Joker86]

Thanks for your answer! 

Being able to change the names of some weapons without messing up other parts is great news! Did you know there are 3 "Broken Swords" and 4 "Nordic Swords" out there? Next to some other double named stuff (e.g. "Sallet Helmet", "Warhammer" and "Kite Shield"), and some mixed up names (e.g. Sythe (the straight one) and War Scythe (blade rectangular to the shaft) - it should be the other way round).

Concerning the item numbers: I wasn't thinking of the maximum number (although my next project after this one will probably be adding new stuff), but of the order. Merc added items several times, and always added them at the end of the list. So you have armors, swords, armors again, bows, helmets, a sword again and so on. I would like to clean this mess up 

But this is not so important, in fact I think I would go without it anyway 

Okay, now I've taken screenshots of each single weapon, armor, helmet, shield and ammo. (haven't got horses, civilian clothing and hats, trading goods, food and books. And no tutorial or tournament equipment - simply all the uninteresting stuff)

Tomorrow I'm gonna put this in a table and start balancing. You may stay tuned 

 

[Wellenbrecher]

Items in the right order would be blessing indeed. I guess you could copy the file and then start a new one where the items are in the right order. Changing it afterwards breaks it AFAIK.
It would be a ****load of work, but hey, do it and we all love you

As for the doubled entries: most of that should be for diversities sake. So you get more than one kite shield. I did the same when I added some armours. Same stats and diplayed name but different textures, to make the game look more interesting. I hate armies composed of clones in the same plate/white linen/fur.
When/if I ever do the personal re-balance I'm thinking about, I'd make the equipment much more random. So that maybe even tier 2 troops get a good weapon every now and then or the other way around.

You should probably start a new thread once you get your numbers worked out otherwise Josef will get an opportunity to use his newfound powers. And nobody wants that, do we?

Have nice evening everbody, the beer is here and I'll be gone for today
Cheers
Judas Inocenti, vox populi

 

[The Mercenary]

Okay.

First things first.

This is not a return. Fully expect to see no more posts from me from this point on. I feel like I should give a few pointers first, because from what I've heard from a few people about this thread and now seen about this thread, you need it.

To Joker:

Don't mess with item_kinds1.txt or whatever the hell the file's called. If you want to reorder the items, you're going to have a massive headache if you use that, because you'll need to re-equip every soldier in the game. Get the source and do it there. item_kinds.py is much easier to mess with, because in the python, the troops are equipped with the game's internal name for the item, not the item's place in the file. In the text files, the troops calls the number of the item. For example, in the python, you have troops equipped with itm_longbow or itm_longsword. This doesn't change unless you personally go in and change it; if you reorder the items, so that itm_longsword is last instead of first, that troop will still be equipped with the longsword. In the text, however, you have troops equipped with 522 and 117, or other random numbers. Say 117 is a longsword, and 522 is a helmet. If the troop was at first only equipped with 117, he will now have a helmet instead of a sword. It gets worse when you insert. If you've taken biology, it's basically an insertion mutation and it annihilates the game, just like it'll cause apoptosis in a cell.

So, don't **** around with order in the text files. Just don't.

Don't.



To everyone:

Use notepad++ when editing the source. It just makes everything so much easier.



To Daumor, Wellenbrecher, and Josef:

I emailed the file again. Don't know it ain't working, don't particularly care. Check your junk folder if you don't see it in your inbox. Pellagus, I'd have emailed it to you as well if I could figure out what your email is. Just nab it from one of the other three.



To Josef:

Make sure that Joker gets a hold of the source. Also, Janus didn't seem to care when I uploaded a single text file to the repository, I don't think he'd mind either way.




To everyone:

Thanks for supporting the mod and testing it through all the troubles that have beset it. Thank you for continuing to support it. I'm sure that someone out there will get a hold of the source and carry on where Jinnai and myself left off. Take care of yourselves.


Oh, and back to Josef:

Also ensure that Llew2 gets a copy of the source. I don't know if he has one or not, but I feel obligated to give him it. I was meant to work on TLD with the rest of that team, but I ended up never getting anything done aside from one little glance through their source. I don't think I'm allowed to say anything other than: they are bloody good. I feel like I should have helped, though, and whatever codes they choose to make use of from NE, if any, they may.

Now then, you've had five minutes of my time. That'll be enough.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

Alright. The file was recived this time.
Thanks again for your trust and the effort put into this mod. I'll send Joker an PM asking for his mail address so he can get the source if no ones cares. *glancing at Josef*

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Alright, locking this topic as it seems to have run its course.

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Development has restarted, with the aim of releasing a version .585 in the coming months.

 

[Mk3390]

Woot! I can't wait,

 

[Mastermind]

Development has restarted, with the aim of releasing a version .585 in the coming months.

Brilliant I just made a forum account to thank you for developping this great mod any further ^^ It's far the best mod and I really tried a lot of them (guess I'm M&B addicted  ).
I wish I could help with the development of the game, but I know NOTHING of coding, programming or anything that could be valueable for modding, so I guess the best thing is to report the bugs I find 
Anyways, again, keep up the good work 

 

[The Mercenary]

Keep me posted, mate.

Module system documentation and a list of changes.

 

[DPsoul]

This is simply great, i am so relieved that its not completely halted

隐藏

And that you, Merc, didn't decide to leave all together of course 

I am looking forward to further versions of this mod and I wish you all and this mod the best of luck for the future.


The best,


-- DPs

 

[Seff]

"Done with the forum" my ass.

That's all. Those to whom it's relevant will understand.

 

[The Mercenary]

Spent many hours on this thing and this board. I don't just walk away from my work. I just walk away from everything around it.