Animations

[Carlosdmc]

New animations definitely working, my men are able to defend properly now, thank you.

They still need a little polishing, maybe making their arms go a little bit further so the melee animation is able to look a little bit more natural and that would be it for melee animations, excellent new running animation, pay close attention to the walking animation with muskets though, they look kinda off, the muskets is not held properly by the character.

Thank you for all your effort.

Get a broom (or any pole), hold it by your hips and thrust.

The bayonet thrust in l'Aigle is pretty nice if you ask me - works best in First Person - though it still doesn't go far enough for me. Having to get close leads to all too many bump-hits.

EDIT: Woops! I read it as "go a little bit further back" for some reason. 'Twould require it to be more like NWs and, wow, I did not want that. x,)

No biggie.

Newer ones work good, like I said, more polishing and they'll be fantastic.

 

[Vraelomon]

Id hate to try and guess the problem, but I have noticed something. The ai seems to use a sort of attack-step back-step forward-attack again sort of maneuver. Which, of course, doesnt work because the attacks never hit anything because of the ai stepping back. That seems to be how mountain bandit just killed 6 of my grenedeirs. Or maybe Im wrong and everything I just said is all mumbo jumbo, but thats kust how it looked.

I dont know if that helps at all. Or if that was even part of the problem.

 

[BushDweller]

Id hate to try and guess the problem, but I have noticed something. The ai seems to use a sort of attack-step back-step forward-attack again sort of maneuver. Which, of course, doesnt work because the attacks never hit anything because of the ai stepping back. That seems to be how mountain bandit just killed 6 of my grenedeirs. Or maybe Im wrong and everything I just said is all mumbo jumbo, but thats kust how it looked.

I dont know if that helps at all. Or if that was even part of the problem.

I can also confirm, the ai tries to skirmish without being ordered.

 

[KACollver]

I think that is why people say Native AI has never been good at using polearms due to their basic combat. They always do that backwards thing and thus don't often hit or do much damage when they do

 

[General K]

Id hate to try and guess the problem, but I have noticed something. The ai seems to use a sort of attack-step back-step forward-attack again sort of maneuver. Which, of course, doesnt work because the attacks never hit anything because of the ai stepping back. That seems to be how mountain bandit just killed 6 of my grenedeirs. Or maybe Im wrong and everything I just said is all mumbo jumbo, but thats kust how it looked.

I dont know if that helps at all. Or if that was even part of the problem.

I can also confirm, the ai tries to skirmish without being ordered.

Not sure if much can be done about this. More of a native built in A.I issue.

 

[Mike Hawk]

AI stupid. That and all troops with native weapons are OP. Villagers kick my ass because they just keep staggering me with lightning fast attacks and there's no way I or any of my troops can respond to them using the mod's weapons.

 

[Articulo34]

AI stupid. That and all troops with native weapons are OP. Villagers kick my ass because they just keep staggering me with lightning fast attacks and there's no way I or any of my troops can respond to them using the mod's weapons.

That. I have nerfed all native weapons still in use and now highwaymen, bandits and all that rabble get demolished by tier2 line infantry on melee.

 

[Mike Hawk]

AI stupid. That and all troops with native weapons are OP. Villagers kick my ass because they just keep staggering me with lightning fast attacks and there's no way I or any of my troops can respond to them using the mod's weapons.

That. I have nerfed all native weapons still in use and now highwaymen, bandits and all that rabble get demolished by tier2 line infantry on melee.

Did the same. Huge improvement. Made all native weapons have speed of 70 or less.

Anyway, new update.

Added the stagger animations for musket melee, tweaked the present (aim) animation a bit and tweaked the left musket butt attack which sometimes caused a bug with AI where their upper body would spin in the wrong direction.

You can download it here.

 

[General K]

AI stupid. That and all troops with native weapons are OP. Villagers kick my ass because they just keep staggering me with lightning fast attacks and there's no way I or any of my troops can respond to them using the mod's weapons.

That. I have nerfed all native weapons still in use and now highwaymen, bandits and all that rabble get demolished by tier2 line infantry on melee.

Did the same. Huge improvement. Made all native weapons have speed of 70 or less.

Anyway, new update.

Added the stagger animations for musket melee, tweaked the present (aim) animation a bit and tweaked the left musket butt attack which sometimes caused a bug with AI where their upper body would spin in the wrong direction.

You can download it here.

I'll try it out soon, updated my Spontoon thing again too with these Cheers for the updates Ranger!

 

[Hysterion]

Okay so after a bit of testing these new bayonet animations, here are my observations:

In human hands the stab is fine, in AI hands it's not as they stab but then immediately go back so there's no contact. Maybe increase the range a bit more ?

Left attack needs a bit more speed and range, they are holding the rifle a bit too much near the stock, if they would hold it a bit higher, you would get more range.

Right attack has perfect speed but needs a tiny bit more range.


Now i had an idea about those bouncing attacks when AI uses the polearm weapon. I think it has to do with the enemy wearing armor. What if for example Docm removed all armor from uniforms and left them like that simply for appearance, there would be nothing to stop those attacks, it would be as if the enemy was naked. Of course cuirassiers would still have armor. I couldn't find any naked enemy in game to test it out, so maybe i'm totally wrong.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Okay so after a bit of testing these new bayonet animations, here are my observations:

In human hands the stab is fine, in AI hands it's not as they stab but then immediately go back so there's no contact. Maybe increase the range a bit more ?

Left attack needs a bit more speed and range, they are holding the rifle a bit too much near the stock, if they would hold it a bit higher, you would get more range.

Right attack has perfect speed but needs a tiny bit more range.


Now i had an idea about those bouncing attacks when AI uses the polearm weapon. I think it has to do with the enemy wearing armor. What if for example Docm removed all armor from uniforms and left them like that simply for appearance, there would be nothing to stop those attacks, it would be as if the enemy was naked. Of course cuirassiers would still have armor. I couldn't find any naked enemy in game to test it out, so maybe i'm totally wrong.

The range is as far as it goes. Any more and the whole body will be distorted. I can't shift the left hand. The musket is bound to the left hand item bone, which cannot be moved.

I agree, the right attack is short, but I have no way of extending it any more. The only thing I can think of is adding an invisible box to the musket models, which should improve hit detection and extend the range.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Bouncing attacks are caused by low velocity connections with the weapon. If you spin on the opposite direction to your (for example) sword slash attack, it almost always bounces off even with nude dudes. The solution would be to give the weapon animations higher velocity when connecting. You could cheese this by just speeding it up, or properly fix it by making the animation into a quick, straight jab with plenty of windup like in native.

Edit: @ranger_slo, the musket models themselves don't affect their hit range. You'll have to measure them in openbrf, and then apply that to the melee versions of each model (under weapon_length)

 

[General K]

Okay so after a bit of testing these new bayonet animations, here are my observations:

In human hands the stab is fine, in AI hands it's not as they stab but then immediately go back so there's no contact. Maybe increase the range a bit more ?

Left attack needs a bit more speed and range, they are holding the rifle a bit too much near the stock, if they would hold it a bit higher, you would get more range.

Right attack has perfect speed but needs a tiny bit more range.


Now i had an idea about those bouncing attacks when AI uses the polearm weapon. I think it has to do with the enemy wearing armor. What if for example Docm removed all armor from uniforms and left them like that simply for appearance, there would be nothing to stop those attacks, it would be as if the enemy was naked. Of course cuirassiers would still have armor. I couldn't find any naked enemy in game to test it out, so maybe i'm totally wrong.

The range is as far as it goes. Any more and the whole body will be distorted. I can't shift the left hand. The musket is bound to the left hand item bone, which cannot be moved.

I agree, the right attack is short, but I have no way of extending it any more. The only thing I can think of is adding an invisible box to the musket models, which should improve hit detection and extend the range.

To be honest you have done what you can. It is a limitation due to the warband A.I. Nothing you do further than what has already been done will change that fact. People just need to deal with the walk back walk forward native A.I crap :p

It isn't that bad anyway, they still in groups and at times hit the enemy and certainly better than any of the previous changes and patch change. So that being said, it is how it is.

@below - I generally feel the attack speeds, ranges and so on are good in Rangers changes. Certainly much better but not everything can be like 100% perfect and I think people just need to deal with the fact the A.I limits such usefulness of the weapon. Simply attempting to make an artificial fix for the weapons really doesn't solve the issue because then the weapons are not how they are supposed to act and operate in general (ie increasing attack speeds further and so on)

 

[joer5835]

I think it's good enough, I rather have this than some over the top Patriot-style musket swinging as if the damn thing weighs nothing.

 

[Mike Hawk]

Bouncing attacks are caused by low velocity connections with the weapon. If you spin on the opposite direction to your (for example) sword slash attack, it almost always bounces off even with nude dudes. The solution would be to give the weapon animations higher velocity when connecting. You could cheese this by just speeding it up, or properly fix it by making the animation into a quick, straight jab with plenty of windup like in native.

Edit: @ranger_slo, the musket models themselves don't affect their hit range. You'll have to measure them in openbrf, and then apply that to the melee versions of each model (under weapon_length)

Makes sense, though if it's only that value that counts, it means that what actually has to come into contact with the enemy when doing butt attacks is the fist. The butt itself has no hit detection then.

Now I either have to find a way to extend the hit detection, which is probably hard coded, or modify the animations in such a way that the left hand is as far out as possible.

 

[General K]

Bouncing attacks are caused by low velocity connections with the weapon. If you spin on the opposite direction to your (for example) sword slash attack, it almost always bounces off even with nude dudes. The solution would be to give the weapon animations higher velocity when connecting. You could cheese this by just speeding it up, or properly fix it by making the animation into a quick, straight jab with plenty of windup like in native.

Edit: @ranger_slo, the musket models themselves don't affect their hit range. You'll have to measure them in openbrf, and then apply that to the melee versions of each model (under weapon_length)

Makes sense, though if it's only that value that counts, it means that what actually has to come into contact with the enemy when doing butt attacks is the fist. The butt itself has no hit detection then.

Now I either have to find a way to extend the hit detection, which is probably hard coded, or modify the animations in such a way that the left hand is as far out as possible.

Good luck Ranger would make sense as to the butt attacks but even as you have it, it is a big change from the standard change

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Now I have to find a way to extend the hit detection.

You'll have to measure them in openbrf, and then apply that to the melee versions of each model (under weapon_length)

 

[Mike Hawk]

Bouncing attacks are caused by low velocity connections with the weapon. If you spin on the opposite direction to your (for example) sword slash attack, it almost always bounces off even with nude dudes. The solution would be to give the weapon animations higher velocity when connecting. You could cheese this by just speeding it up, or properly fix it by making the animation into a quick, straight jab with plenty of windup like in native.

Edit: @ranger_slo, the musket models themselves don't affect their hit range. You'll have to measure them in openbrf, and then apply that to the melee versions of each model (under weapon_length)

Makes sense, though if it's only that value that counts, it means that what actually has to come into contact with the enemy when doing butt attacks is the fist. The butt itself has no hit detection then.

Now I either have to find a way to extend the hit detection, which is probably hard coded, or modify the animations in such a way that the left hand is as far out as possible.

Good luck Ranger would make sense as to the butt attacks but even as you have it, it is a big change from the standard change

Thanks. I'll do my best-

Now I have to find a way to extend the hit detection.

You'll have to measure them in openbrf, and then apply that to the melee versions of each model (under weapon_length)

Yeah, I get that, but the weapon_length modifier only works in one direction - towards the front of the weapon. I need to extend it towards the back of the weapon as well.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Well there's the issue -- the business part of the hit marker is a single point and not a line, hence why spin-stabbing is so effective. I don't know how much you'd mess up the hit detection if you tried putting it backwards, even if it were possible: there are hardcoded modifiers that increase with weapon length (same with weightless weapons being unable to pierce armour).

 

[Mike Hawk]

So, I've figured something out, but it will require me to do adjustments on pretty much every single musket animation.

It's going to take some time. Probably around 1-2 weeks. The upside is that most of the hit detection issues will be fixed.