Ancient technologies

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Palos

Knight
          The Antiquity was an age of knowledge, of great advancements in the realms of  thought and sciences (parts of the natural philosophy concept). Unfortunately some of this knowledge was lost after so many thousands of years. Who knows what informations were preserved for example in the Library of Alexandria at the time of its destruction?  Although much information was lost, there is plenty of evidence that these civilizations were pretty advanced and in some areas that high standard set by the ancients was going to be achieved only in present times.
       
          My reason for opening this thread is to list some of these technologies and artifacts, many forgotten for ages while others unknown even to this day. Almost all my examples remain in the field of technology. From the current list only the perpetual lamp could be placed in the myth area.
       
          I’ll start with the engineering examples:

-  Proper knowledge of stonemasonry applied to the building of various large structures like the complex of Baalbek in Lebanon with the famous Trilithon (three gigantic stones measuring each 14x12x64 feet and a weight of 800 tons), the fabled Seven Wonders, the rests of the pyramids, many Mayan sites (Tikal,  Calakmul) etc.

-  Good urban planning: Uruk (the largest city in the world in 3000 BC – 80 000 inhabitants), Babylon, Avaris, Thebes, Yinxu, Babylon, Carthage (500 000 inhabitants in 300 BC), Alexandria, Rome (I think that is the first city to reach 1 million inhabitants). Such urbanization rate was going to be achieved again in Europe only in the lasts hundred years. 

-  The use of central heating and plumbing systems on large scale throughout the Antiquity, from Europe to Asia. It seems that many cities in Northern Africa had such plumbing systems long before the arrival of Romans. 

-  Advanced metallurgical techniques. For example the iron pillar built in a single forge aparently in about 350 AD (India), weighting six tons, 100% anti-corrosion (although containing 98% pure iron).
     
                    http://www.inae.org/metallurgy/iron%20pillar/gurudev_iron%20pillar_2007.pdf

    Another example in this area is the discovery of various metal parts, in pre-Columbian Mesoamerica, estimated to be casted at high temperatures, a technology used later only in the 20th century.

    And now the items:

-  Antikythera mechanism, discovered in a shipwreck near Crete, probably dating from 100 BC, and known as the first calculating device, a scientific computer. Such complex design was achievable again only 1700 – 1800 years later. It is believed that it was used in astronomy.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

-  The Baghdad battery discovered in 1936, dating from approximately 200 AD. The main theory is that this artifact was used as an electrical device.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_battery

-  The so called ever-burning or perpetual lamps, found in various ancient sites (especially tombs), from the Middle Ages onward. These items were supposed to be in use for hundred of years at the time of their discovery. I'm not aware of recent uncovery of such artifacts in recent times. It could be a myth related to the esoteric traditions. 


Feel free to name other examples.






 
Very interesting.. I just read about these things yesterday, on a swedish forum. Here's a link to the thread, it's all in swedish but if you don't understand it just press the links, contains pictures and information in english.

http://fragbite.se/?threadID=669141


Here's some pictures http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/hiddenhistory/hiddenhistory06.htm

Here aswell http://www.skybooksusa.com/time-travel/experime/cenozoic.htm
 
I know about that stuff, Sorkenlol. These are mostly isolated discoveries, objects of study for what can be considered an unofficial archaeology. Nevertheless a whole new discussion can be open when analysing such artifacts.

In this thread I'm referring to more "recent" times, from 4000 BC until the Middle Ages. One may think that the ancient civilizations were so little advanced when comparing to ours but there are plenty of evidence against this theory.
 
Well, modern civilization is really just a continuation of classical society. Medieval times was just a depressing sideshow where they had to figure everything out again. 
 
Yeah, everyone pretty much just sat around in their own ****, just trying to hold on until the Renaissance came along (which they never did, because the average lifespan was 17). "Just ye think, Billie," they would croak out, "once ye Renaissance cometh, the printing press will magically vanquish illiteracy and ignorance and ye brutal repressive stranglehold of ye Catholic Church will be shattered and never ever do anything bad at all, especially not in Spain and not involving Inquisitions, and our lives will be enriched by paintings of Greek people instead of European people. Truly, it will be a time of peace and prosperity for all. I only wish I could be alive for the 15th century, or the 14th century if this is Italy."
 
Captain Pyjama Shark 说:
Well, modern civilization is really just a continuation of classical society. Medieval times was just a depressing sideshow where they had to figure everything out again. 

Not really, in the Middle ages some new things were invented aswell.
 
FrisianDude 说:
Though, we ARE quite a lot further advanced than they were.

It's obvious but once in a while someone finds stuff like the Antikythera mechanism or the Baghdad battery and it makes you wonder about the true stage of development in those times.

doorknobdeity 说:
"once ye Renaissance cometh, the printing press will magically vanquish illiteracy and ignorance and ye brutal repressive stranglehold of ye Catholic Church will be shattered and never ever do anything bad at all, especially not in Spain and not involving Inquisitions, and our lives will be enriched by paintings of Greek people instead of European people.

The religion has always been an obstacle in the way of progress since its "invention", more or less in all the societies. The case of Europe is the worst example.


  Back to the list. Check these inventions of Heron of Alexandria (first century AD), a dude way ahead of his time:

                                http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/HeronAlexandria.htm

       
        - the Aeolipile, the first recorded steam engine  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile

        - the first vending machine

        - various automatons (self-operating mechanical devices)

     

 
I saw they had somekind of a clock which was also a callender. It seems to have been quite advanced, like our 'Modern' day clocks.
 
FrisianDude 说:
Not really, in the Middle ages some new things were invented aswell.
Well yeah, I was just generalizing. But when you look at modern society, it is based around that of the ancients. But we are of course actually a lot closer to the medieval times, so we have some influence by them as well. And or example take Rome. They had amazing technology, an amazing system of law, splendid roads, aqueducts, education, philosophy, and when it came to religion they were much more pragmatic. I was just really pointing out that we are a lot closer to them when it comes to how our civilization works, and that medieval times were more of a dark age where we had to make those progresses again.
 
Rome did bring much advancment to the world at the time. But do not forget Rome took much of that from other cultures, they just improved it alot. There was a long standing saying "Rome takes into itself that of others and makes it her own". That applied to everything from people and land to technology.

As for the middle ages, there was a time when almost nothing in the way of advancement was made in technology or science due to religion (ie The Dark Ages). Many inventors/scientists/theologians where jailed, killed or exiled during that period of idiocy.

 
Rome was actually more of a continuation of the Greeks. Their strength was not inventing, but adapting.  Gods for example, but most ancient cultures borrowed and passed around their Gods. The ancients had a more pragmatic religion. If the Gods would help them to a political end, they would adopt it, and they'd screw it if a god was hampering them.
 
Palos 说:
The religion has always been an obstacle in the way of progress since its "invention", more or less in all the societies. The case of Europe is the worst example.

See, there are two ways to address this issue. We could explore in-depth the advances made in science not only by people living in Catholic-dominated lands, not to mention those of ecclesiastical people themselves, and compare that to times when it might have hampered such issues, try to distinguish it from other factors (e.g. secular social trends and local attitudes), and then speculate as to what the period would have been like without the influence of the Church, one of its defining features.

Or we could talk a lot about Galileo and how Greco-Roman statues make everything better.
 
There's evidence I've seen that points to the Church (mind you I'm no Christian) not actually impeding "progress" (if you can call inventing something progress at all), but rather politics was responsible.  The three sectors of society in the "classical" middle ages existed for good reason, but some inventions would challenge the power of one or two of them.  Greek social philosophy was outlawed because its concepts challenged the very non-egalitarian world they lived in.
 
Greek philosophy definitely wasn't outlawed. Aquinas, for example, hardly a heterodox, used the works of Aristotle in his writings, referring to him simply as "The Philosopher." There was a rather strict orthodoxy, but it wasn't as stultifying as it's often made out to be.

That said, the Church was a political entity as much as it was a spiritual one. I've heard evidence that the persecution of Galileo wasn't necessarily because of his "heretical" beliefs; rather, it had more to do with the fact that in promoting them, he failed to do so tactfully, alienated and insulted what friends he did have (including the Pope himself), and was generally a huge jerk about the whole thing, the fact that he was absolutely correct notwithstanding. It's like someone telling you that you're stupid for not voting Democrat; it doesn't matter what his point is or how much merit it has, nobody's going to listen to such an *******. Likewise, Galileo's house arrest was very possibly a result of him offending some very powerful people, not by being a heretic.
 
doorknobdeity 说:
See, there are two ways to address this issue. We could explore in-depth the advances made in science not only by people living in Catholic-dominated lands, not to mention those of ecclesiastical people themselves, and compare that to times when it might have hampered such issues, try to distinguish it from other factors (e.g. secular social trends and local attitudes), and then speculate as to what the period would have been like without the influence of the Church, one of its defining features.

My intend is not to involve any religion or any related structure revolving around religion in this thread. As you can see I'm only referring to the ancient times, no matter the region.

I state again my purpose of this thread

Palos 说:
                  My reason for opening this thread is to list some of these technologies and artifacts, many forgotten for ages while others unknown even to this day.

                  Feel free to name other examples.

Mardy 说:
I saw they had somekind of a clock which was also a callender. It seems to have been quite advanced, like our 'Modern' day clocks.
That's the Antikythera mechanism (you have the link in the first post).
 
doorknobdeity 说:
Greek philosophy definitely wasn't outlawed. Aquinas, for example, hardly a heterodox, used the works of Aristotle in his writings, referring to him simply as "The Philosopher." There was a rather strict orthodoxy, but it wasn't as stultifying as it's often made out to be.

Social philosophy was the point. I can see why, they were heathens, and while their scientific progress may interest you, social structures would be different as those preferred.
 
doorknobdeity 说:
Greek philosophy definitely wasn't outlawed. Aquinas, for example, hardly a heterodox, used the works of Aristotle in his writings, referring to him simply as "The Philosopher." There was a rather strict orthodoxy, but it wasn't as stultifying as it's often made out to be.

That said, the Church was a political entity as much as it was a spiritual one. I've heard evidence that the persecution of Galileo wasn't necessarily because of his "heretical" beliefs; rather, it had more to do with the fact that in promoting them, he failed to do so tactfully, alienated and insulted what friends he did have (including the Pope himself), and was generally a huge jerk about the whole thing, the fact that he was absolutely correct notwithstanding. It's like someone telling you that you're stupid for not voting Democrat; it doesn't matter what his point is or how much merit it has, nobody's going to listen to such an *******. Likewise, Galileo's house arrest was very possibly a result of him offending some very powerful people, not by being a heretic.

the main reason that Galileo was prosecuted on trumped up charges was that he pissed off the pope by publicly labeling him "Simplicio" in a dialogue that he published and the pope had been the last person who was protecting him after he pissed off everyone else with persistent plagiarism and generally being an arsehole.
 
Yes, but that was after the papacy started trying to suppress him, wasn't it? That wasn't the start of it, but it certainly couldn't have helped matters any. Also, plagiarism? That I haven't heard before; could you elaborate?

Zilberfrid 说:
doorknobdeity 说:
Greek philosophy definitely wasn't outlawed. Aquinas, for example, hardly a heterodox, used the works of Aristotle in his writings, referring to him simply as "The Philosopher." There was a rather strict orthodoxy, but it wasn't as stultifying as it's often made out to be.

Social philosophy was the point. I can see why, they were heathens, and while their scientific progress may interest you, social structures would be different as those preferred.
No. They were heathens, but they were "good" heathens--that is, they would have been Christians if they had been born a couple hundred years later, which made things okay--for the record, they also admired Julius Caesar, the heroes of the Trojan War, and other Classical figures. Furthermore, Aquinas wasn't a scientist, he was a philosopher and theologian, and his works addressed social issues, using themes and ideas from the Greeks.
 
okay, I'll have to get back to you on the plagiarism part (I have to dig through all the books until I find the right one).
Just one more point, to a certain extent G was prosecuted because of politics - his patron was a duke that supported spain and the pope had been elected by french or french allied cardinals and was under attack by the pro spain faction. just at this time along comes an outspoken, pollitically moronic possible heretic and voila, the moron gets stomped to show the french the popes resolve.

 
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