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An Open Letter to TaleWorlds from the Kingdoms of Arda team, and the Total-Conversion Mod Community about our concerns and frustrations with Bannerlor
- 主题发起人 Gandamula
- 开始时间
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Cybersbe
Recruit
Don't believe me?
Take a look at Warrider, the earliest version of Mount and Blade:
He is confused because you claimed that Warband was finished and then you later said "The previous M&B games released unfinished to fund the rest of the development".
(In theory, Warrider isn't the oldest version of Mount&Blade but this aside) Warrider has nothing to do with Early Access or whatsoever. EA wasn't even a thing back then. Also, comparing a game made in 2004 with three people to a game developed by 100+ people in 2021 makes no sense.
NA1F
Sergeant
1+
Cybersbe
Recruit
It's pretty obvious what I meant. The Warband we play today is the result of many, many patches. But when it was initially released, it was in an unfinished beta state.
Lol. You think just because the official "Early Access" label didn't exist meant that devs couldn't release unfinished games and patch them later?
Also, there's more factors to consider than just the number of people. The actual size and scope have to be considered too. The planned features make it obvious that TaleWorlds is trying to do things they simply couldn't do with what they had in Warband. Furthermore, consider the fact that Warband uses only 100 megabytes of data, whereas Bannerlord uses 60 gigabytes. It takes far more than just upscaled graphics to use up so much more memory.
But that's besides the point. The overall point is that releasing products unfinished is nothing new for Taleworlds. And those who think otherwise are ignorant to the company's history.
What fundamentally changed between the release of warband and now? There were a lot of patches but if you look at the notes it's standard post-release cleanup fare, with a handful of bugfixes and compatibility changes. Even bannerlord has changed a lot more since release than warband ever did.
Cybersbe
Recruit
Yeah... but mods CAN'T be reliably developed for an unfinished game. Being unfinished means updates. Updates break mods.
Because of this, I just can't realistically see it as a good idea to develop modding tools until the vanilla problems are fixed. Once Bannerlord is a finished game, THEN we can worry about modding.
No, did I say anything like that?
Regardless, Warrider didn't have this transformation that you mentioned. It didn't release in "unfinished" state and then got patches. It was finished and ironed out the bugs later on( finished in standards of that ). And along the way, with peoples contributions, Armagan added more features/cities etc because unlike now, TW didn't have a hierarchical structure which is causing issues to them.
If you weren't following the Way of the Sword/Warrider back then, there is no point of arguing with you about this and dig up ancient articles for showing you that you are mistaken.
Warband also wasn't in EA or "unfinished" in that sense. They didn't release Warband without most of it's features and expected to sell nicely and patch up things later on. As James stated above, Warband changed/patched, surely, but this didn't change the game completely.
If you check the first page, you will see what my first post says about the letter.. You are not too way-off what I initially said if I understood you correctly. But modders, in that letter, only asking for some basic changes as far as I can see now and they are fine with those changes ( removing internal keywording, having a sloppy but at least readable-document-like-tw-thingy etc)
Do I think this will boost their creativity and increase their efforts in terms of completely changing the game with overhaul mods? No. But they wouldn't ask for this if they didn't think it would help them. Since they compiled these issues in one thread, it should mean that they are facing these issues too often and that's something TW fix easily throughout the development.
If only big teams could do two things at once... develop a product and update its modding tools.
I agree with MadVader... for once. It had to happen.
Mods are the lifeblood of M&B. Warband without mods would have died long ago; even the native MP used NeoGK servers. The demand is there for mods - interesting fact: Bannerlord already has twice as many mods on Nexus as Warband and is currently sitting at 13th in the list of most individual downloads of all time.
I sincerely hope Taleworlds take the steps needed to correct this though. Removing the internal flags as suggested seems to be the most important thing. I can understand a reluctance to fill out the documentation while the game is still in production; I can somewhat forgive that - but clearly it is still important.
Not having extensive documentation even internally is borderline insane. Creative Assembly used to be like this too. Its just nuts that a company with literally a billion dollars riding on its success would be too lazy or unstructured to enforce proper code documentation.
I don't even trust myself to remember how my own code works, I couldn't even fathom expecting other people to just work it out.
I don't even trust myself to remember how my own code works, I couldn't even fathom expecting other people to just work it out.
True. I meant that modders want to diverge production resources from features to moddability, which effectively means less features in the near future.
I suppose that's true. But at the same time I believe it could be considered very important. I have always taken the view that M&B is an engine for which others build games on. I certainly want Native to be as good as possible - but at the end of the day 90% of my time n this game will be spent on Mods (no matter how bad/good native becomes) and this needs to be considered.
I think given the game is still in EA - a forgiving man might suggest they are waiting to finish proper development first. It certainly makes a lot of sense given this is no doubt changing all the time. I've also heard good things about the mod tools (to an extent) and the structure of the code itself.
The internal flags are less forgivable - give the modders what they need. The reason they might have done this may be because they know these will be changing and they don't want mods to work on something for it to be ruined later - however given this is already happening you might as well say - bugger it and give them everything.
We as a community just need to make sure this page is always kept at the top of the board - and that it always remains professional and critical.
I love Taleworlds and M&B - but this needs to be properly addressed.
最后编辑:
Absolutely. Now that I'm aware of the modders plight, I support their petition.
And that's the thing. A lot of people don't exactly know about this issue. They don't know the modders can barely do anything. Once people are aware, they will start to realize its a problem that needs to get fixed, soon.
Modders still have a fair bit to do; I have spoken to the guys at KoA - and though this is a wrench it hasn't stopped production.
Basically they just need TW to pull their fingers out. I really hope this gets a good resolution. I can forgive pretty much anything else - as long as the modding community has the ability to do what they need to do.
Nalgasucia507
Squire
Why do you set the bar so low for TW?
>Open forums
>See AxiosXiphos made 20 shill posts since yesterday
>Close forums
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