An open discussion on why equal movement speed (relative to equipment) is crucial to melee

Should every faction have a class with the highest movement speed?

  • yes, movement speed is crucial and not having it is unfair

    Votes: 13 65.0%
  • no, some factions should not be able to move fast (like Khuzait)and should use other tactics instead

    Votes: 7 35.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Users who are viewing this thread

movement speed is essential for survival in situations where you are outnumbered and surrounded,

some factions (like khuzait) do not have a class that has the fastest movement speed and i believe that is unfair

please consider having a class with the fastest movement speed available for every faction

thank you for reading
 
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Doesen't Khuzait have more cav unit compared to the other factions?
yes, but should Khuzait infantry be punished for that?

having better/different weapons/armor then your opponent is fine as it encourages different gameplay/tactics

but, having better movement speed is not fair,

core combat mechanics like movement speed (relative to equipment load) should be universal so that foot combat can be competitive/fun for all

movement speed should only be limited by your equipment and not by your faction or any other unchangeable variables

this encourages infantry combat rather then limiting Khuzait to cavalry play
 
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dijiTurk

Banned
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
Doesen't Khuzait have more cav unit compared to the other factions?
You can check from image here:


movement speed is essential for survival in situations where you are outnumbered and surrounded,

some factions (like khuzait) do not have a class that has the fastest movement speed and i believe that is unfair

please consider having a class with the fastest movement speed available for every faction
Lord, please consider checking this thread:

You can see how awful the Hitpoint(hp) or movement speed's variation is.

All hitpoints = 100
Movement speed values are soooo close for every class... (like 79-84 for infantry)
(armor values also need to have wider/better numbers )

This is bad.




One unit in every class should have one dramaticly strong value at all kind of stats(hp/movement speed/armor etc). Like(example) :

Empire's first unit at infantry class should have highest HP value in Empire's infantary class. And, Empire's this first unit at infantry class should have "2nd highest HP value" in all the empire units. But, Battania's 3rd unit at infantry class should have highest HP value in all infantry classes(6 culture's 6 inf classes). However, the highest HP value should be at Aserai's first cavalary unit ie.

Therefore, we can see highest HP value at empire's infantary class. We can see highest HP value at Empire from all units in Empire. We can see highest HP value from all infantary classes at all cultures. And, we can see the highest HP value from all units.

This means, colorful stats, more characteristic units/classes/cultures = increasement at fun. *


And, HP is not only thing that needs work. Movement speed also needs love.
And, armor values/unit amount etc need some touches for wider & more characteristic style, too.


*This colorful stat rework should be only for "primary values" for all stats . Player should also have some normal-epic-legendary perks that some of them also effect to stats for tactics & further colorization.
 
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Movement speed values are soooo close for every class... (like 79-84 for infantry)
in combat a difference of even 1 movement speed means you cannot catch your enemy

in warband you could always be naked for every faction and be the fastest you can be,

but in bannerlord they premade classes, making it impossible for some factions to even catch up with others,

if the class system is ever going to work the least taleworlds could do is make a class for each faction with the highest movement speed so that melee combat could be competitive and no faction can simply outrun another faction
 

Moton

Squire
yes, but should Khuzait infantry be punished for that?

having better/different weapons/armor then your opponent is fine as it encourages different gameplay/tactics

but, having better movement speed is not fair,

core combat mechanics like movement speed (relative to equipment load) should be universal so that foot combat can be competitive/fun for all

movement speed should only be limited by your equipment and not by your faction or any other unchangeable variables

this encourages infantry combat rather then limiting Khuzait to cavalry play

But why does every faction need to be viable in the same ways? This is the exact problem I have with Bannerlord. Every faction literally feels exactly the same now except Khuzait and some minor stuff between other facitons. But you play them almost identical. If you ask me I would like to see more difference between them.

The question is; Why does everyone want to make the teams the same with different colors?

A game like Bannerlord where both teams have the same objectives needs somewhere else to make factions important. A game like Counter Strike have huge differense between its two teams even tho they have almost identical loadouts. Differense is that they have different objectives.

I mean why even have different factions if you want them to have the exact same capabilities?
 

dijiTurk

Banned
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
in combat a difference of even 1 movement speed means you cannot catch your enemy
It should be like:


[

/info
ms100=primary normal speed value for infantry
ms115=%15 faster movement speed than primary normal speed at infantry. = still primary movement speed (primary = pre-perk effected )
info/


(
101ms for Empire's Infantry A1 Unit
85ms for Empire' Infantry A2 Unit
115ms for Empire's Infantry A3 Unit

) *

+
Some perks' effects(increasement or decreasement) to ms
] = reached/selected/customized movement speed



[

/info
100ms= primary normal speed value for infantry.
info/


(
105ms for Aseira A1 primary ms
132ms for Aserai A2 primary ms.
94ms for Aserai A3 primary ms.

) *


+
Some perks' effects(increasement or decreasement) to ms
] = reached/selected/customized movement speed




*cultural primary ms values ( )

Dont forget. Further units (A3 or A4) should have overall better "primary stats" in total. Like: Aserai's A3 should have 94ms but, 65 armor, and/or 220hp which should be better than A1&A2 .



But its 79to84 in infantry atm. Which is meanless, indeed.
,


if the class system is ever going to work the least taleworlds could do is make a class for each faction with the highest movement speed so that melee combat could be competitive and no faction can simply outrun another faction
They could do highest ms for each culture. Only one culture could have highest ms from all units in all cultures. Each classes from each cultures could have highest ms individually. Etc. Variation needed.

Each cultures' best class line could also better than previous lines in overall, but with dome other stats weakness.


But why does every faction need to be viable in the same ways? This is the exact problem I have with Bannerlord. Every faction literally feels exactly the same now except Khuzait and some minor stuff between other facitons. But you play them almost identical. If you ask me I would like to see more difference between them.
You can see needed.
The question is; Why does everyone want to make the teams the same with different colors?
Maybe they think that ranked mode means same teams with different colors, and close adjustments at stat values means meaninful(!)
A game like Bannerlord where both teams have the same objectives needs somewhere else to make factions important. A game like Counter Strike have huge differense between its two teams even tho they have almost identical loadouts. Differense is that they have different objectives.

I mean why even have different factions if you want them to have the exact same capabilities?
Ranked mode/not developing the best for fun gameplay is easy option/this is not warband/lets go next game with small dev team/you want too much thing...

Some possible answers to stay in bad designs.


updated / upv2
 
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ParzivaI

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The thing that doesn't make any sense to me is the massive difference in speed from inf to range classes, yesterday I was lucky to have one of those fun rounds in captain mode where 5 team mates went archer and the enemy went inf, and they got real close real fast, and when we told our troops to retreat it was like they run in slow motion... they all got cought so fast
Today I went to check their movement speeds and Varyag has 80 speed and hunter 74...
How does a guy in full armour runs more than a guy with rags and a bow???
 

dijiTurk

Banned
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
1-Movement speeds shouldnt considered only between classes.
2-There should be meaningful differences at all cultural units, including the case of movement speed values.
3-Meaningful & different kind of perks should effect stats, including movement speed.
Etc..

Currently, there are 3 main types of movement speed: inf ms, ranged ms & cavalary ms. And, all inf runs faster than ranged ones even without looking armor..

Imo, solution is basic. I drew the framework in past few posts/threads..
 
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The thing that doesn't make any sense to me is the massive difference in speed from inf to range classes, yesterday I was lucky to have one of those fun rounds in captain mode where 5 team mates went archer and the enemy went inf, and they got real close real fast, and when we told our troops to retreat it was like they run in slow motion... they all got cought so fast
Today I went to check their movement speeds and Varyag has 80 speed and hunter 74...
How does a guy in full armour runs more than a guy with rags and a bow???
taleworlds feel like if they gave archers reasonable speed they would just constantly kite and it would be annoying for other players to play against,

however, by crippling their movement speed they limit archers ability to melee at all and force them to do nothing but try to run away instead of melee fighting

giving all classes the same base movement speed only differentiated by equipment load would level the playing field and allow all classes to fight reasonably on foot instead of being trapped into 1 role on the battlefield,

taleworlds seem to have their mind on crippling all classes based on the specific role they choose,

we have to wait for custom servers to un-cripple the movement speed of cavalrymen and archers,

until then they are doomed to be irrelevant in melee

i always thought that just having a speed penalty on the equipment (bow or quiver) should prevent kiting, but at the same time if the quiver is dropped then the archer can now melee reasonably without movement penalties,

this also makes sense bc running with a quiver full of arrows is awkward
 
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dijiTurk

Banned
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
3UwM3.png


Could you please tell me if new values above is better, or not? I belive that @Jesus__is__Lord will find this values much better than current ones* ( *which makes all units similiar & makes movement speed etc problematic. )

@Loyal2Odin @ParzivaI @greedogre @Moton @TheAndrew

The image shows only one culture as more characteristic. And, there will be 5 more cultures for tasty balance. (+perk customizations for sweet matches )

up. : as always, i'm not supporting full reality game or pure fantasy.. The Empire's second unit(pal.) at ranged class has more armor than first unit, however, second unit has more movement speed = it's cultural - another characteristic touch. General values at units should follow some basics, but something should be also different.
 
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Horatius

Sergeant at Arms
WBNWVC
I assume the moving/agility stats are kinda useless anyways as it doesn't consider armor.

Speed differences make for good gameplay, archers running away is just a pain in the ass and not good gameplay. Currently they are a bit wonky but really not a priority considering the state of the rest of the game.
 

dijiTurk

Banned
WBNWVCM&BWF&S
.. archers running away is just a pain in the ass and not good gameplay.
Well.. If u play captain mode & if archr unit doesnt have a cultural boost at armor/damage stats etc.. Then its not a big problem. You have your teammates + there is an objective that you will probably doing easly aganist those archers with your high armor stat/shield. Let some archers have faster MS than many other units. They are archers, not highly armored infantry & there should be sweet balance with considerng many different cultural units. 🎰
 
3UwM3.png


Could you please tell me if new values above is better, or not? I belive that @Jesus__is__Lord will find this values much better than current ones* ( *which makes all units similiar & makes movement speed etc problematic. )

@Loyal2Odin @ParzivaI @greedogre @Moton @TheAndrew

The image shows only one culture as more characteristic. And, there will be 5 more cultures for tasty balance. (+perk customizations for sweet matches )

up. : as always, i'm not supporting full reality game or pure fantasy.. The Empire's second unit(pal.) at ranged class has more armor than first unit, however, second unit has more movement speed = it's cultural - another characteristic touch. General values at units should follow some basics, but something should be also different.
the problem in bannerlord is that you cannot edit your equipment to gain speed,

i wouldn't mind your setup as long as it has the ability to edit your class in anyway you want

but keep in mind that all players should have the same core attributes like speed and health (swing power etc) and the only variable is the equipment which you can select or not select

premade classes limits the freedom you have

any system can pretty much work as long as you can edit them to gain speed/ or trade off and get more armor etc
 
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