An idea and poll about Traits.

Do you agree with the idea of trajectory instead of absolute Trait Score?

  • Yes, trajectory sounds better.

    Votes: 27 87.1%
  • No, I prefer trait score.

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • Total voters
    31

Users who are viewing this thread

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Bottom line upfront: traits require too much grinding.

So, I'm typing this on my phone so excuse the typos and brevity but traits in BL are sorta bad. The concept makes perfect sense, but the way they are implemented brings out how artificial relationships are handled and feel in Bannerlord.

Right now you complete like twenty quests without doing anything that breaks your word to get the Honorable trait. I can only speak with certainty for myself but if I ask a guy to do something like nineteen goddamned times and he delivers every single one of those tines, when the twentieth time comes around I'm NOT thinking, "Hmm, dunno, he might be a little shifty..." That's paranoid as hell.

Instead there should be a presumption based on current "trajectory" for lack of a better term, countered by the expectation that trait brigs you. For example: A guy who does something exceptionally brave one time (from a neutral position) gets the Daring trait, off-rip, until he does something counter to that trait .that might be fleeing a battle, avoiding a gang fight, refusing to duel, what have you, doesn't matter. What matters is that holding a trait should create an assumption of future behavior, with the "gallant" title being reserved for player characters willing to go out of their way to be paragons of calradric virtue. If you're already consistently (let's say three or more times consecutively) acting in line with a trait, then you should gain it. Maintaining that trait should be the difficult part, not just gaining it. Meanwhile, conscioius violation of the trait should tank your trajectory: the brave guy who pisses his pants and flees in terror can't just rely on a bank of stockpiled goodwill; people will call him out for it, right then and there. Maybe he gets a mulligan one time, sure. That means Daring drops off, yet he isnt being penalized. But if he does it again? Coward, plain and simple. Trajectory in action.

At the same time, matching traits should give much more than a simple +1 or +2 to relations. Boosting you straight to friendship is probably too much for one trait, but matching three or more might as well given how few NPCs that will triple match and the effort involved in seeking them out.

What do you guys think?
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
Totally agree here. Traits are so unobtainable that i honestly forget about them during a playthrough and they have absolutely no impact on how i play the game. As of now they are basically just another behind the scenes feature that I could care less about, but that's not how I want them to be.

I think your suggestion would make me give a **** about traits and have an actual impact on how I play. @Duh_TaleWorlds what do you think?
 
This makes a lot of sense and feels like it would add a nice bit of positive feedback/reward for the player when undertaking actions. And seems to be easily adopted but I know nothing of the inner workings of games. Really, it feels like it would work a lot better than even how CK2 implemented mostly pre-ordained traits.
 

Gerrodot

Veteran
What do you guys think?

I agree, the design and implementation of traits need to be better designed and developed, otherwise their influence is not particularly felt. I would like more role-playing element, and you can not be shy about crazy things like in Crusader Kings 2-3.
 

Lazregamesh

Sergeant
WB
I would love to see what their vision with traits is right now before judging, it seems what we have right now is just a placeholder till more important things are done (I disagree with their priorities but i am just one person)
Other then that, you have good ideas and it would be nice to see them focus a bit more on the rpg elements of the game. I think they have done an amazing job on the combat side of things.
It is time they look at the other aspects, they can go back to combat later if they must, but an improvement on all aspects of the game is better then 100% on one thing, then 100% on the next thing so on and on
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I agree, the design and implementation of traits need to be better designed and developed, otherwise their influence is not particularly felt. I would like more role-playing element, and you can not be shy about crazy things like in Crusader Kings 2-3.
One of the few things I like about CK3 compared to CK2 is the stress mechanic for acting out of character. I don't think it is applicable in Bannerlord and BL would be better served by having the traits react more dynamically to player behavior, rather than acting as a stockpile that can be periodically drawn from without consequence -- like if you're solidly considered honorable, sometimes stealing a herd of Aserai horses instead of delivering them has no real repercussion beyond losing a bit of relations with the notable who gave you the quest. You can't do it literally all the time but as long as you're generally acting honorable (not breaking your word) then it won't have any lasting impact.

Obviously, that isn't how people in the real world view things -- the guy that occasionally steals your **** is a ****ing thief. That's why I think maintaining traits should be about living up to expectations and recent actions should count for more.

Even then, maybe have the existing Trait Score grind in place for the level 2 traits, that would be fine.
It is time they look at the other aspects, they can go back to combat later if they must, but an improvement on all aspects of the game is better then 100% on one thing, then 100% on the next thing so on and on
They have different teams who work on separate aspects of the game simultaneously. There is nothing stopping combat improvements from happening while the campaign gets tweaked and polished, other than the fact that the campaign team is small the team working on combat, scenes, etc. is big.
 

Lazregamesh

Sergeant
WB
Obviously, that isn't how people in the real world view things -- the guy that occasionally steals your **** is a ****ing thief. That's why I think maintaining traits should be about living up to expectations and recent actions should count for more.

Even then, maybe have the existing Trait Score grind in place for the level 2 traits, that would be fine.
This makes a lot of sense.
They have different teams who work on separate aspects of the game simultaneously. There is nothing stopping combat improvements from happening while the campaign gets tweaked and polished, other than the fact that the campaign team is small the team working on combat, scenes, etc. is big.
Why do they say stuff like this then?
A visual representation has been drawn up but it has been put in the backlog since more pressing issues arose. I'll get back to this and work out the final details.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Why do they say stuff like this then?
Because in that thread I was making a UI request to the one (1) UI dev. The dude literally has better things to do than implement my "nice to have" suggestions. That is a different situation compared to the campaign team (seven people) and the mission/scening side (...um, a lot of people?).
 
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Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
They need to make the traits do a lot more before I can begin to care. They should give all both a useful buff effect or ability and also have more potent relational effects. Not a few relations or %, like +100% "you have this trait this person LOVES/HATES you" "She 100% wants" the BAD BOY ****".
What they have now they could just delete outright and it wouldn't matter at all.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
They need to make the traits do a lot more before I can begin to care. They should give all both a useful buff effect or ability and also have more potent relational effects. Not a few relations or %, like +100% "you have this trait this person LOVES/HATES you" "She 100% wants" the BAD BOY ****".
What they have now they could just delete outright and it wouldn't matter at all.
Baby steps.

Plus I want to see if people agree that the 1000 points of Trait Score (for level 1) grind is too much.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
Baby steps.

Plus I want to see if people agree that the 1000 points of Trait Score (for level 1) grind is too much.
Fair enough, I think it's hard to even gauge rights now how much progress we make to know for sure about how much is too much.
I think it would be cool to have a graph of all the opposing traits showing a shape representing how we're spreading out, since we can have multiple traits, just not opposing ones. I'm sure there's a name for the shape graph type thing I just don't know it.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Fair enough, I think it's hard to even gauge rights now how much progress we make to know for sure about how much is too much.
They are already working on that.
I think it would be cool to have a graph of all the opposing traits showing a shape representing how we're spreading out, since we can have multiple traits, just not opposing ones. I'm sure there's a name for the shape graph type thing I just don't know it.
A radar chart.
 

Lazregamesh

Sergeant
WB
Because in that thread I was making a UI request to the one (1) UI dev. The dude literally has better things to do than implement my "nice to have" suggestions. That is a different situation compared to the campaign team (seven people) and the mission/scening side (...um, a lot of people?).
You are underestimating how "nice to have" this implemented :p
I guess we will have to wait ^^
Baby steps.

Plus I want to see if people agree that the 1000 points of Trait Score (for level 1) grind is too much.
I wouldn't mind the grind if the reward was worth it, as it is right now, it is meh but ok i guess. It is more like badges that i like to collect.
 

AJAJP_Juan

Knight at Arms
Like
Fair enough, I think it's hard to even gauge rights now how much progress we make to know for sure about how much is too much.
I think it would be cool to have a graph of all the opposing traits showing a shape representing how we're spreading out, since we can have multiple traits, just not opposing ones. I'm sure there's a name for the shape graph type thing I just don't know it.
Like in Humankind?

latest
 

LDominating

Regular
@Apocal

First our priorities,deleting Khuzait from the game.
Then we can get traits in,but first Khuzait should be replaced by Aserai like faction or Imperial.

There's no coming back from that,Khuzait blocks 90% of the playerbase from enjoying the game!
Nobody in this game,unmodded that is,has said!
WOOOO we're going to smash Khuzait.
They only go "Khuzait?Maybe I'll play something else,a new campaign sounds good"
 

Lazregamesh

Sergeant
WB
@Apocal

First our priorities,deleting Khuzait from the game.
Then we can get traits in,but first Khuzait should be replaced by Aserai like faction or Imperial.

There's no coming back from that,Khuzait blocks 90% of the playerbase from enjoying the game!
Nobody in this game,unmodded that is,has said!
WOOOO we're going to smash Khuzait.
They only go "Khuzait?Maybe I'll play something else,a new campaign sounds good"
Why do you want them gone? this is my second playthrough and they are folding so hard, in my first i personally dealt with them and once you figure out a strategy to use against them, they are pretty easy.
They charge with their horse archers headlong even at a disadvantage and slowly move back.
1.You can use archer superiority with timing shots
2. circle around with cav to cut them off from the main formation
3. Use square formation on infantry and engage them when they are stuck with your cav
4. Use your own horse archers to skirmish with them if none of the above are things you like to do
Sturgia spearman maybe weak in melee against other troops but mixing a few in your infantry formation will be especially effective in catching stray cav in the middle of the chaos. Another + point for sturgian troops is their massive shields, you can advance a square and let them waste arrows on them while your archers tear them apart from afar.
 
It would be good it traits were like special perks that gave you and ncp's special options that help reflect the personality of the person. Brave could give you option to challenge to duel or Evil could give you the execution ability . This would make each ncp and character special . the traits at the moment are pointless.
 
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