An Advanced Guide to Dueling - More Than Manual Block *Updated 6/16*

[Qwertyman]

The problem is that, once you know your opponent can chamberblock, it's rather easy to discourage him to do it. Just hold your attacks every once in a while, so that an attempted chamberblock will result in your opponent getting hit. After a while it becomes too risky for him to try.

but this in itself is another way you can use chambers-  to control how your enemy attacks,    it can be hard to keep up with oponents who attack lightening fast,  so a good chamberblock or two will slow them down in anticipation for your next chamberblock (which may or may not come at all)

 

[Max.Pain]

The problem is that, once you know your opponent can chamberblock, it's rather easy to discourage him to do it. Just hold your attacks every once in a while, so that an attempted chamberblock will result in your opponent getting hit. After a while it becomes too risky for him to try.

That is why frequent chamberblocking is not a good idea. Your opponent can exploit your eagerness very easily. Using chamberblocks sporadically as a surprise move is, at least when used against me, a lot more effective.

There has been only one frequent chamberblocker I have had trouble with beating him and that was Bjordhinn/BJB. Not because he chamberblocked me, but because he attempted chamberblocks on my feint attacks, recognised I was feinting and let his attack go. For a long time, I just stopped feinting against him, but then I started holding attacks and he attempted chamberblocking a lot less. The risk was too great for the reward. It's a while since I last fought him, should look him up again .

Well, that's a way to counter chamber-blocking, but can also be out-countered by simply attack immeidately after your blocking, just like the basic way to counter feint. Any predicted move are easy to counter, not just chamber-blocking. Just as I said, it is a tactical move, not a super move, mastering chamber-blocking might not boost your attack ability greatly, but it can cripple your opponents' tactic. You had to change your fighting style because of it, didn't you? 

 

[Qwertyman]

it seems the chamberblocking argument simply comes down to preference.

at the end of the day,  it 'is' a nice move to have up your sleeve-  i see it more as a utility technique,  as someone described.  it has many diference purposes depending on your oponent-  surprise attack, disrupting offence or simply controling how they play (by making them counter your technique with slow attacks)

 

[duckduckMOO]

Chamberblocking is great for forcing the opponent to pay attention to the possibility of a chamberblock. It's more likely to catch someone off guard than a lot of things, especially if you do a really fast one. Simply having chamberblocking in your arsenal gives you an advantage in any given fight (whether or not you actually use it). It also gives you a much safer way to call someone's bluff when they're feinting. A chamber attempt, after which the opponent feints (and it's pretty rare that a feint beats out a chamber unless specifically baiting) can leave them wondering what the hell you were thinking swinging as a blow comes towards them.
The three styles seem a little incomplete. I don't know what style I play apart from that it isn't usually aggressive control.

 

[Qwertyman]

this topic has been sidetracked a bit by chamberblocking,  but i think we have enough covered over these few pages for the OP to be updated with a number of aproaches to it

will you be explaining weapon choice at all?    I'd suggest outlining broad weapon choices,  such as 1 handed and 2 handed weapons,  (special topic about 3 directional weapons like sabres)  polarms,  and specialty weapons (morningstar, warhammer)

1handers are overlooked quite often by many duelists, they regard a greatsword to be superior in every way to an arming sword,  but I would disagree.  the speed of a shorter weapon really makes up for it (remember stats arent everything, 1handed animations are both harder to read, and faster in delivery).
Spears also, are either considered spammy, or rubbish for duels-  but again, i'd disagree,  since they can be used in a very effective defencive playstyle (surprise head-stabs, and its ability to chamberblock easily, and the ease with which you can do pre-emptive strikes are three examples of how to do this)

In certain circumstances, even the warhammer or morningstar can be good duel weapons-  but I wouldnt recomend them against the better duelists out there.

 

[kingofnoobia]

The problem is that, once you know your opponent can chamberblock, it's rather easy to discourage him to do it. Just hold your attacks every once in a while, so that an attempted chamberblock will result in your opponent getting hit. After a while it becomes too risky for him to try.

That is why frequent chamberblocking is not a good idea. Your opponent can exploit your eagerness very easily. Using chamberblocks sporadically as a surprise move is, at least when used against me, a lot more effective.

There has been only one frequent chamberblocker I have had trouble with beating him and that was Bjordhinn/BJB. Not because he chamberblocked me, but because he attempted chamberblocks on my feint attacks, recognised I was feinting and let his attack go. For a long time, I just stopped feinting against him, but then I started holding attacks and he attempted chamberblocking a lot less. The risk was too great for the reward. It's a while since I last fought him, should look him up again .

Well, that's a way to counter chamber-blocking, but can also be out-countered by simply attack immeidately after your blocking, just like the basic way to counter feint. Any predicted move are easy to counter, not just chamber-blocking. Just as I said, it is a tactical move, not a super move, mastering chamber-blocking might not boost your attack ability greatly, but it can cripple your opponents' tactic. You had to change your fighting style because of it, didn't you? 

I had to do a very minor adjustment to my fighting style which makes a select few of my attacks easier to block. So yea, my fighting style changes when I fight a good chamberblocker, but my potential remains largely unchanged.

It is very different with an occasional chamberblocker. My fighting style will be unadjusted to his chamberblocking, making it more likely that I am hit. In a way, it is a bad thing if I have adjusted my fighting style to you. It means you have shown most of the tricks up your sleeve, and that I will do my very best to find the counter to every single one of them, within my capabilities. The occasional chamberblocker is more secretive, not allowing me to adjust, and that is tactically more sound.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Hasek, heres a little something for you, since your guide has really made me consider some things and has helped me out a whole lot.

隐藏

 

[LordHasek]

Thanks for the spirited discussion everyone. I will definitely be updating the section on chambering sometime this coming week and following that up with a more detailed analysis of attack patterns. I am probably going to hold off on analyzing specific weapons because the upcoming patch is set to change atleast one of the major dueling weapons (Rhodok Spiked Staff), but I will see about doing a couple of the more common weapons if I have time. 

 

[Kapt Torbjorn]

Yea you do all that and then get shot in the back by some twat with a crossbow.

 

[EdwardWellcraft]

Yea you do all that and then get shot in the back by some twat with a crossbow.

Hopefully not in a duel server, but that's what vote banning is for.

 

[LordHasek]

Hey Flaming_Monkey, not sure if you're reading this, but I wanted to apologize for the timed ban earlier. Was a mistake, and nothing personal to you.

Come on back and I may share some of the pie from this thread. For everyone else, you can expect an update to the guide today or tomorrow.

Cheers!

 

[LordHasek]

I have just updated the guide with additional attack patterns, notation, and a new section on chamber blocking. Please keep the suggestions coming everyone. =)

 

[MadocComadrin]

Chamber Blocking Reference Guide:
...
Attack is an overhead - You thrust OR you swing overhead
...

I thought overheads could only be chambered by overheads, not thrusts as well?

Great addition, however (we really need a thumbs-up smiley!) 

 

[Orion]

Chamber Blocking Reference Guide:
...
Attack is an overhead - You thrust OR you swing overhead
...

I thought thrusts could only chamber thrusts, not overheads as well?

The original implementation of chamber blocking had thrusts chambering overheads and overheads chambering thrusts. Due to popular demand, changes were made that allowed vertical attacks to chamber similar vertical attacks (thrust vs. thrust, overhead vs. overhead). The original system for vertical attacks wasn't changed, merely added to.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Bah, I didn't edit my post quick enough  . Sorry for being unclear! What I meant to say was that I thought Thrust and Overheads can chamber-block thrusts, but only overheads could chamber overheads. Is this right or wrong?

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

Hmm....reading this makes me think I fall into the AC category...though the kick-slash is said to be in the DC domain, I think it can be used aggressively too.

 

[Reapy]

I'm glad people finally are starting to 'see' chamber blocking and how it fits into the big picture. It is that one element that adds enough into the mix more decisions to be made. You essentially have 3 ways to attack a person when you are both in each other's range.

Hold strike = get in their face, release at random time or when they twitch, almost impossible to chamber block, but is trivial to be blocked, or if you don't release the swing soon enough you will just get hit by an incoming attack.

feint attack = pretty good as long as a person 'respects' the feinting and doesnt attack you though the cracks of your feints.  Feint attacks are vulnerable to chamber block attacks, but sometimes harder to manual block.

single strikes = imposes a pace and rhythm on a person, and 'speeds up' combat. Singles strikes are vulnerable to chamber blocks and easily blocked manually, they are the first type of strike a person will learn to manual block.

When you finally fight in a duel where both people can block well and chamber block well you have all sorts of different things to consider how you attack that person. I always cite my dueling with neih but hes the only person that is really good that I've had opportunities to duel with at length.

Neither of us play as much as we used to, but the last time we were dueling the fights just look stupid and I almost laugh out loud at them. Most of the time it seems like we are both just standing there waiting for the other person to take the 'wrong' action, and many of our attacks that start an exchange are some attempt to maneuver the other person somewhere vulnerable.

I just find it funny that as time goes on the amount of actions that happen in each fight go down more and more and as understanding about dueling increases. Grasping how chamber blocks fit into the course of a 'normal' duel is something I still think a lot of people don't see and is often quite rare to find someone who knows and thinks about them as they play.

To learn them you really need to go out there and do them 24x7, but once you feel reasonably comfortable with the timing you have to stop doing them all the time, and wrap them into your fighting style in a way that works for the way you fight.

 

[Reapy]

Bah, I didn't edit my post quick enough  . Sorry for being unclear! What I meant to say was that I thought Thrust and Overheads can chamber-block thrusts, but only overheads could chamber overheads. Is this right or wrong?

That is right. If someone thrusts you you can thrust attack or overhead attack to chamber it. If someone overheads you you have to overhead swing to chamber that.

 

[Orion]

I'm pretty sure you can do both overheads and thrusts against both vertical attacks.  For simplicity's sake I only bother using overheads vs. overheads and thrusts vs. thrusts, but I'll go test it out in singleplayer.

 

[Stabbing Hobo]

You can't counter overheads with thrusts anymore. I learned the hard way. And it took a while.