Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation

[Skandinav]

Some data that some of you might find interesting.

Standard = Onehand overhead (+0)

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

*DISCLAIMER*
This test was done against a dummy, with modified weapon lenghts. Margin of error is probably around +/-3. For your information, testing this with no information about the reaches took a lot of time. If you want more accurate results you'll have to do it by yourself.

Source: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118906.msg2872758.html#msg2872758

 

[KoA John]

How did ya find out these numbers? =o

 

[Godnoken]

Yesh, this is indeed interesting.
I didn't know that the difference would be that much on some of it.

 

[Will Greaves]

Does the actual reach currently match the visuals?  Most games with melee, they don't match; and I believe that in at least some versions of Mount & Blade, they haven't matched, either.  Usually the reach is longer than shown, as if the weapon had an invisible extension.  How about Warband?  I can't tell even after playing it for dozens of hours (and original M&B for hundreds).

 

[brognar]

On most weapons it's pretty tight but a few (that stupid scimitar) have ridiculous invisible extensions.

 

[DanAngleland]

Are you sure the scimitar has an invisible extension? I assumed that it was simply a case of the curve of the blade deceiving the eye, since the straight part often appears to fall short but then as the swing completes, the curved end reaches the enemy unexpectedly.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Yes and no. The engine can only handle straight, contiguous weapons, so the scimitar gets it's length by taking the projection of the scimitar on the line running up the center of the weapon.

Screenshots momentarily.



Elite Scimi:

This one might actually have a cm or two of invisible length. Lemme see if I can get a better view with the current version of OpenBRF.

Edit: Eh, not really getting a better screenshot, but just rotating it around seems to show that 3cms of the Elite Spamitars 103cm shouldn't exist.

 

[Stabbing Hobo]

Data on 1h and 2h should be somewhat accurate, when I got to polearms I just wanted to get done faster so they may be off a cm or two.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Oh god, why do you still have that avatar. 

Aside from lengths, I'd really love to get an animation speed rating as well. I've been mulling over ways to test it myself, but ideas are always nice.

 

[Skandinav]

Ghost range on different weapons in Native is not (always) illusory (your eyes deceiving you or bad connection syncronization between two players); I know for a fact that the devs in cRPG has fixed it on some accounts.

 

[bertanx]

Thanks for that useful information, now MP will be even better.

 

[Urist]

Well, what we did in cRPG is simply to match the reach stat of each weapon with its actual model length. In Native there are some weapons with a difference there. It seems they used the reach as a free balancing attribute without caring much if it actually fits the model. Don't know if there is any other source of "ghostreach".

 

[Skandinav]

Seems I misunderstood you, Urist. But I remember pictures where a weapon connected to a player hitbox before the in-game mesh did. May have been from beta times and fixed now. Or bad sync.

 

[MadocComadrin]

Well, what we did in cRPG is simply to match the reach stat of each weapon with its actual model length. In Native there are some weapons with a difference there. It seems they used the reach as a free balancing attribute without caring much if it actually fits the model. Don't know if there is any other source of "ghostreach".

From what I've seen, the devs are usually pretty good about models and weapon reach, even to the point where they "leave off" parts of the model that wouldn't cause actual damage. I believe the Elite spamitar is just an exception or a mistake based on poor point-of-view.

 

[Hertog Jan]

Its weird that the bonus you get with a 2h is bigger than you get with a 1h. I mean, the weapon itself might be longer, but how do your arms reach further when you use them both? Makes no sense to me. Whatever move you make using a 2h your arms are always in a triangle, so shouldnt the reach be shorter? 

 

[captain lust]

Its weird that the bonus you get with a 2h is bigger than you get with a 1h. I mean, the weapon itself might be longer, but how do your arms reach further when you use them both? Makes no sense to me. Whatever move you make using a 2h your arms are always in a triangle, so shouldnt the reach be shorter? 

You don't swing a 1 hander with your arm at its full extension.

 

[Hertog Jan]

Its weird that the bonus you get with a 2h is bigger than you get with a 1h. I mean, the weapon itself might be longer, but how do your arms reach further when you use them both? Makes no sense to me. Whatever move you make using a 2h your arms are always in a triangle, so shouldnt the reach be shorter? 

You don't swing a 1 hander with your arm at its full extension.

I just tested a overhand attack (with a coathanger ) but even with a slightly bended elbow it reaches a bit further or at least the same. Also the 2h gets a bigger reachbonus when stabbing and I assume you do extend your arm fully when stabbing with a 1h?

 

[MadocComadrin]

Aye, but remember, the 2h stab is presented fully forward (+0) reach and extends pretty much on the center, while the 1h stab starts a bit back under the arm and goes a bit off to the side, reducing overall range.