Ambushes confirmed ?

[HUMMAN]

honestly this gamescom was promising for me, we got elite troops confirmed, ambush back; and Armağan Bey claims there is more. Hyped 

 

[Piconi]

My only question to this video is how in the **** is this guy able to give away 5 beta keys, when he is generally unknown, yet many forum members who are here for 5+ years still have not received a key?

Well, that is a good question, but not for this guy, not for us, but for Taleworlds themselves and their way of how community is managed.

I honestly don't get overhyped of getting a beta key this way or that, the game is coming (in somewhat its entirety) in only 6 months, thats like, miniscule amount of time ?

 

[Roy1012]

Maybe they heard the suggestions from the community with the workarounds to the problems found in early builds of the ambush feature.

That sounds almost too good ?

Ambushes worked in Rome Total War that came out in 2004. I feel like they shouldn't really have an issue at implementing such a system if such a system was implemented into a game so long ago.

 

[FBohler]

Maybe they heard the suggestions from the community with the workarounds to the problems found in early builds of the ambush feature.

That sounds almost too good ?

Ambushes worked in Rome Total War that came out in 2004. I feel like they shouldn't really have an issue at implementing such a system if such a system was implemented into a game so long ago.

But they did have problems. Life goes on.

 

[Piconi]

Maybe they heard the suggestions from the community with the workarounds to the problems found in early builds of the ambush feature.

That sounds almost too good ?

Ambushes worked in Rome Total War that came out in 2004. I feel like they shouldn't really have an issue at implementing such a system if such a system was implemented into a game so long ago.

Callum actually said once that ambushes are being scrapped for the time being, because they were not working as intended.

In viking conquest it was quite janky and very random.

As for Total War series, they are turn based, so i think it's way more relaxed to write that on the world map. I quite like how they figured it out on battle scene and i think in Bannerlord it could be even better, so i eagerly await to see what they have for us.

I would like to harass some Vlandians and Imperials so much ....!

 

[KhergitLancer80]

Maybe they heard the suggestions from the community with the workarounds to the problems found in early builds of the ambush feature.

That sounds almost too good ?

Yeah, unfortunately TOO good. Its probably not the case. HopeTMfully it is though.

Best case scenario, they didnt know the feature was so demanded and they got full suprised when fans completely FREAKED OUT. I remember how everyone started complaining, saying how they are cutting features from a game that had been in developement for 7 years. So they will implement it back but they will make the solution themselves.

I myself admittedly was very disappointed because especially one of the factions, Battanians traditional warstyle was all about ambushes. The cut would one sidedly weaken a faction. I even opened a topic about it: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,382471.msg9089200.html#msg9089200
My OP:

Spoiler

Source:
5th entry from bottom. Callum confirms it.
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,380443.msg9075061.html#msg9075061

Now my concern is that one of the factions in the game Battania is based on Celtic people and historically ambushing was the base of their warfare. So I just dont like that a battle strategy will be taken out from the game which will make it worser for one specific faction compared to others.

I understand that they werent able to find a solution for this so they dumped the feature but I think I got an idea.
Lets say I want to set an ambush. I click on: take an action=> set ambush.
My party becomes unvisible on map and I cannot move. If an enemy walks into ''a reasonable amount of range around me''(range depending on my army size and ambush skill) I get asked whether to attack or not. If I say yes, I go to deployment scene. In this scene I can deploy my soldiers as I please and from the three sides of my enemy. but the enemy is not allowed to deploy his army. His cavalry on frontest, light inf and archers behind and heavy inf behindest all in a three lines order. After I deploy and press attack, the rest is same with a normal battle.

If the enemy walks into my ambush again but this time I say no to ''attack?'' well, also depending on the tracking skill of my enemy and my ambushing skill and how much he got close to my army; he will or will not be able to see me.
Forests and hills will also decrease the range of the enemy being able to see me.
If the enemys tracking skill is above my ambush skill then he will be able to see me before entering my ambush range and my ambush wont work and if he walks onto me it will be a normal battle.

So this is my suggestion what do you think about it ?

 

[Horik6697]

Wow, it's good to have a sign of some kind of ambush mechanics. I'm totally into Battania and want my first play on Calradia to be as a Batannian. When I knew that ambushes were gone, playing as a battanian lost it's magic... Now my heart is cheered up again! Hopetm they keep it up!

 

[Roy1012]

Maybe they heard the suggestions from the community with the workarounds to the problems found in early builds of the ambush feature.

That sounds almost too good ?

Ambushes worked in Rome Total War that came out in 2004. I feel like they shouldn't really have an issue at implementing such a system if such a system was implemented into a game so long ago.

Callum actually said once that ambushes are being scrapped for the time being, because they were not working as intended.

In viking conquest it was quite janky and very random.

As for Total War series, they are turn based, so i think it's way more relaxed to write that on the world map. I quite like how they figured it out on battle scene and i think in Bannerlord it could be even better, so i eagerly await to see what they have for us.

I would like to harass some Vlandians and Imperials so much ....!

Well, it could be done similar to the total war series. When you are camped, you can decide to set up an ambush, if somebody comes within the vicinity it may work or it may not. Forested or river areas would increase the chances of it working. The AI could also do it.

 

[Piconi]

Maybe they heard the suggestions from the community with the workarounds to the problems found in early builds of the ambush feature.

That sounds almost too good ?

Yeah, unfortunately TOO good. Its probably not the case. HopeTMfully it is though.

Best case scenario, they didnt know the feature was so demanded and they got full suprised when fans completely FREAKED OUT. I remember how everyone started complaining, saying how they are cutting features from a game that had been in developement for 7 years. So they will implement it back but they will make the solution themselves.

I myself admittedly was very disappointed because especially one of the factions, Battanians traditional warstyle was all about ambushes. The cut would one sidedly weaken a faction. I even opened a topic about it: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,382471.msg9089200.html#msg9089200
My OP:

Spoiler

Source:
5th entry from bottom. Callum confirms it.
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,380443.msg9075061.html#msg9075061

Now my concern is that one of the factions in the game Battania is based on Celtic people and historically ambushing was the base of their warfare. So I just dont like that a battle strategy will be taken out from the game which will make it worser for one specific faction compared to others.

I understand that they werent able to find a solution for this so they dumped the feature but I think I got an idea.
Lets say I want to set an ambush. I click on: take an action=> set ambush.
My party becomes unvisible on map and I cannot move. If an enemy walks into ''a reasonable amount of range around me''(range depending on my army size and ambush skill) I get asked whether to attack or not. If I say yes, I go to deployment scene. In this scene I can deploy my soldiers as I please and from the three sides of my enemy. but the enemy is not allowed to deploy his army. His cavalry on frontest, light inf and archers behind and heavy inf behindest all in a three lines order. After I deploy and press attack, the rest is same with a normal battle.

If the enemy walks into my ambush again but this time I say no to ''attack?'' well, also depending on the tracking skill of my enemy and my ambushing skill and how much he got close to my army; he will or will not be able to see me.
Forests and hills will also decrease the range of the enemy being able to see me.
If the enemys tracking skill is above my ambush skill then he will be able to see me before entering my ambush range and my ambush wont work and if he walks onto me it will be a normal battle.

So this is my suggestion what do you think about it ?

Its like our brains are twins  look my 2 posts from near past:

Good news for Battanians

My dreams while they were stomped:

Spoiler

Battanian faction really makes no sence if they dont add ambush system. Why would they even mention it if they are removing it, or not adding at the first place ?

Battania is perfectly constructed for those kind of mechanics.
TW has most obviously found inspiration for that faction in early germanic tribes and celts that were most famous for their ambushes agains Rome (Teuteborg forest for example) and it would be their only advantage,besides superior numbers.

Without the ambush system, and/or some kind of increased multiplier for number of recruits you can gather in Battanian villages and towns (say 1.5x-2.5x more men), Battanians are doomed with their inferior armor, unfavorable faction position and lesser number of holdings.

My enthusiasm never died ? :

Spoiler

As a TW forum member, veteran of the utmost loyal Taleworlds community proud owner of M&B Warband, skilled in-game archer and rider, having spent hundreds and hundreds of hours in both singleplayer and multiplayer, i pledge myself to the sacred goal of making developers of this beloved, not yet released game, to introduce the AMBUSH system to the game, i will not yield, i shall make it happen, from this day, until my last day ?

Startiiiiiing now:

Total war series have really interesting concept that make ambushes work quite well in their games.
As for the grand map overview TW could prevent ambush spam by AI by doing next:
Making the ambush "stance", or "make ambush" decision when you stop,same like "read a book" or "make camp" and others that already exist in WB, possible only in FORREST areas.

That is easily achievable as there is already a "party slowing down" in forest areas in Warband. Same areas where you party slows down can be used to mark area where anybody is able to make an ambush.

Next they can make a "pre battle troop placement" only for the ambushers, while the ambushees are caught off guard by making their troops spawn on the battlefield disorganised and all unit types mixed up as oposed to already placed ambush troops VERY close to them.

As Battania is already my favourite faction, and for the reasons i mentioned in my previous post that i requoted just now, i believe they should have some sort of advantage in these scenarios, like dense forests all arround their faction and between their cities, their army NOT slowed down by forest areas and/or inability to ambush a party that is part of Battania faction.

Creating a successful ambush by remaining invisible on the map should be related to path-finding skill, as should ability to see an ambush before you fall in their trap be related to spotting skill.

It is maybe a dream, but a beautiful one and i will not yield ! ?

 

[KhergitLancer80]

It is as they say, great minds think alike 

 

[CaptainLee]

I was very disappointed when TW said ambushes were dropped. I remain sceptical they have been reinstated... but who knows?

 

[NPC99]

I hope the ambush perks are nothing to do with bandit lairs.

Spoiler

 

[Piconi]

I hope the ambush perks are nothing to do with bandit lairs.

Spoiler

I think not, it looks more like "attack the hideout" in Warband, but in Bannerlord you can obviously do it at night and have less enemies maybe...

That perk specifialy states that you are able to find better ambush places, and the other one lets you discover an ambush.

There is no instance where you are ambushed when you are attacking a bandit hideout.

Just my toughts

Or maybe they just have very fancy descriptions of very simple perks that actually do some things not even described in that fancy description, and you are right ?

 

[Iberian Wolf]

I've got really high hopes it's gonna happen.

One year ago, on last year's Gamescom we were able to see all the skills and perks (thanks Duh!)and there wasn't a single mention about ambushes in the skill tree. Then Callum confirmed the feature was dropped by March 2019. And now we could see they are included in the Scouting perks. Wouldn't make sense to work on those for nothing.

So I think they took on board our feedback and ironed out whatever it was bugging them and managed to include in the updated skills and perks this year. And naturally, they could scrap it, but I think it's unlikely.

There are even perks related to night activities, possibly ambushes - I've suggested something like that several times. Just wanna confirm as soon as the video uploader will let the cat of of the bag.

 

[Younes]

Since it seems like a digging through the files should do it, i decided to do it. Those are some notable and interesting lines that mention "Ambush" in them.

Spoiler

terrain_ambush_cliff_01
terrain_ambush_cliff_01_01
terrain_ambush_cliff_01_02
terrain_ambush_cliff_01_03
terrain_ambush_cliff_01_04
terrain_ambush_cliff_02
terrain_ambush_cliff_02_01
terrain_ambush_cliff_02_02
terrain_ambush_cliff_02_03
terrain_ambush_cliff_02_04
terrain_ambush_cliff_02_05
terrain_ambush_cliff_02_06
terrain_ambush_cliff_02_07
terrain_ambush_cliff_small
terrain_ambush_cliff_small_01
terrain_ambush_cliff_small_02
terrain_ambush_cliff_small_03
terrain_ambush_cliff_top_01
terrain_ambush_cliff_top_01_01
terrain_ambush_cliff_top_01_02
---------------------------------------------------------------
Name of this file is picture is: wait_ambush

---------------------------------------------------------------
sp_npc_ambush
anim_mainmap_ambush (seems to be an animation for the world map)
Ambush_defenders_spawn
terrain_ambush_cliff_detail_01

<music id="music_ambushed_by_neutral.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_khergit.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_nord.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_rhodok.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_swadian.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_vaegir.ogg"

<map_icon id="map_icon_ambush_spot_desert_a" id_str="ambush_spot_desert_a" flags="0x1" mesh_name="map_icon_ambush_spot_desert_a" mesh_scale="0.58" sound_no="0" offset_pos="0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000" />
    <map_icon id="map_icon_ambush_spot_desert_b" id_str="ambush_spot_desert_b" flags="0x1" mesh_name="map_icon_bandit_hideout_c" mesh_scale="0.58" sound_no="0" offset_pos="0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000" />
    <map_icon id="map_icon_ambush_spot_rock_a" id_str="ambush_spot_rock_a" flags="0x1" mesh_name="map_icon_ambush_spot_rock_a" mesh_scale="0.58" sound_no="0" offset_pos="0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000" />
    <map_icon id="map_icon_ambush_spot_rock_b" id_str="ambush_spot_rock_b" flags="0x1" mesh_name="map_icon_bandit_hideout_a" mesh_scale="0.58" sound_no="0" offset_pos="0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000" />
    <map_icon id="map_icon_ambush_spot_forest_a" id_str="ambush_spot_forest_a" flags="0x1" mesh_name="map_icon_bandit_hideout_a" mesh_scale="0.58" sound_no="0" offset_pos="0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000" />
    <map_icon id="map_icon_ambush_spot_forest_b" id_str="ambush_spot_forest_b" flags="0x1" mesh_name="map_icon_ambush_spot_forest_b" mesh_scale="0.58" sound_no="0" offset_pos="0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000" />

bo_ambush_spots

I think its safe to say ambush is a thing one way or another unless they were forgotten to be removed

 

[Klausolus]

<music id="music_ambushed_by_neutral.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_khergit.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_nord.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_rhodok.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_swadian.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_vaegir.ogg"

Warband faction names?

 

[Younes]

<music id="music_ambushed_by_neutral.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_khergit.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_nord.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_rhodok.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_swadian.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_vaegir.ogg"

Warband faction names?

like i said, maybe they forgot to remove them

 

[Piconi]

<music id="music_ambushed_by_neutral.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_khergit.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_nord.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_rhodok.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_swadian.ogg"
<music id="music_ambushed_by_vaegir.ogg"

Warband faction names?

like i said, maybe they forgot to remove them

Now this is just them playing with our minds and feelings ?

 

[FBohler]

This means ambushes are confirmed in vanilla Warband! 

 

[Count Delinard]

I hope the ambush perks are nothing to do with bandit lairs.

Spoiler

I'm afraid you are right, either this or they forgot to remove these assets after they ditched the feature.