Ambush And Camp Mechanic ( with demo )

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Actually, this is one of the few examples where handcrafted maps can work out better. Currently, I'm picking camp positions and "transit"positions procedurally since there are no "handmade" camp position indicators or path for armies to move. If they can add spawn positions for ambushers and defenders, along with camp/path positions , overall implementation would be x3 times easier. And it would feel better because now you would have more logical moving paths for armies and camps.
If you can see my last video, you would expect army to move in the open path where there are no mountains and/or no forests, but I'm simply drawing a direct line and it's leading them to go to forest path even though map isn't designed for direct paths but more curved path. If this was added in map making process, it would look way better.
you got it! Hopefully, in your heart of hearts, you would be inclined to mod the idea after battle terrain system is done, thus making your job easier and spreading your goodwill with us, simple people if TW doesn't implement it. Have a great rest of your Sunday!
 

Bloc

Archduke
WB
you would make it .. if TW doesn't implement it
Yeah... no. That's exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to do. I want this to be in native game, as a player.
With this thread, I'm stating the facts that I see from the gameplay and implementation perspective.
- It's not super-complicated as a feature.
- It's not complicated as code.
- It's not interfering with the current game style people have or not forcing them to use this when it's implemented (unlike hideouts btw you have to clear them out, you have no other way).
It's simply creating a new battle style, and adding some value to certain perks.
- Similar feature was already been promised in blogs/pre-release materials, it's not a "surprise" feature for them.
- It's clearly fun - or at least me and several other people are finding this fun.

If they still say no, I would very much like to know why. If they don't even want to explain that, well, nothing I can do about that.

That being said I'm sure @Dejan would be at least kind enough to bring this suggestion to the table
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
Great work @Bloc. Also your videos will increase chance of TW to discuss / implement these suggestions.

Just a note, this ambush system seems easy to implement and probably will add gameplay fun but only downside is it can make catching and raiding caravans (also weak enemy parties, if player make camp near enemy town’s gates) too easy.
 
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Julio-Claudian

Knight at Arms
Great work @Bloc. Also your videos will increase chance of TW to discuss / implement these suggestions.

Just a note, this ambush system seems easy to implement and probably will add gameplay fun but only downside is it can make catching and raiding caravans (also weak enemy parties, if player make camp near enemy town’s gates) too easy.
Perhaps ambushes shouldn't be possible too close to towns and castles, or on open plains.
 

guiskj

Squire
Perhaps ambushes shouldn't be possible too close to towns and castles, or on open plains.
Agreed, restricting ambushes to inside/near forests, mountains/hills and bridges should help minimize players/AI from spamming these everywhere.

Also, caravans and really small parties should gain a big boost to avoid/escape ambushes, making preying on them more difficult.
And finally, the size of your party doing the ambush should negatively impact your chances, forcing ambushes to be attempted by smaller parties on larger parties, thus also helping to balance the feature and making it a high-risk/high-reward thing.

The main downside that I see is that, to make this fun, there has to be risk in both being the ambusher as well as the one being ambushed, however the way I see/hear everyone playing is by never loosing, because loosing battles is really not fun. TW added this player capture functionality that is almost never used because loosing a battle is a big hassle.
But ambushes are all about the risk of loosing and I am afraid that until TW makes loosing a battle by a player more interesting, an ambush mechanic, even if it is fun on its own, will not be something that many of us will be using.

Unless, of course, TW takes the path of least resistance and makes ambushes high reward but low risk, which defeats the purpose imo.
 

NPC99

Baron
M&BWBWF&SVC
...but only downside is it can make catching and raiding caravans (also weak enemy parties, if player make camp near enemy town’s gates) too easy.
As @Julio-Claudian suggests TW could make it impossible to set up an ambush within a fixed radius from a settlement (the locals would spot it and spill the beans).

Equally, as caravans and villagers are timid and wary of ambush sites they could be given a 70% chance to evade any trap.

I'd love to ambush fast moving mobile parties (i.e. Khuzaits, Steppe bandits etc) with caltrops. :grin:
 

Cheyros

Recruit
do you actually think taleworlds is going to come on here and implement people's ideas... get real... nice of you to show off your new toy but if you don't plan to release then who cares

Yeah... no. That's exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to do. I want this to be in native game, as a player.
With this thread, I'm stating the facts that I see from the gameplay and implementation perspective.
- It's not super-complicated as a feature.
- It's not complicated as code.
- It's not interfering with the current game style people have or not forcing them to use this when it's implemented (unlike hideouts btw you have to clear them out, you have no other way).
It's simply creating a new battle style, and adding some value to certain perks.
- Similar feature was already been promised in blogs/pre-release materials, it's not a "surprise" feature for them.
- It's clearly fun - or at least me and several other people are finding this fun.

If they still say no, I would very much like to know why. If they don't even want to explain that, well, nothing I can do about that.

That being said I'm sure @Dejan would be at least kind enough to bring this suggestion to the table
Do you even enjoy modding this game? Why are you so worried what Taleworlds does? Your signature is full of dead mods or at least soon to be if not already all because you complain taleworlds won't make your game the way you want. And on top of it you obfuscate your code and tell the community to deal with it. lol you are a great modder /s
 

Bloc

Archduke
WB
Just a note, this ambush system seems easy to implement and probably will add gameplay fun but only downside is it can make catching and raiding caravans (also weak enemy parties, if player make camp near enemy town’s gates) too easy.
Cheers and I agree. I was planning to add this as a precaution actually in the demo - limiting ambushing too close to outside of towns is required. I think setting this is fairly easy as well.

Apart from that, overall mechanics require some form of balancing indeed. I just wanted to show some POC, since I know some people in TW don't like to think abstract and wants to see some visual stuff to have a better understanding (You surely know what I mean :smile: )
Ambush success and AI "noticing chance" of ambushed parties can be adjusted based on soldier count and skills. For example, if you are not able to ambush 40 people caravan with 60 people unless you are too good at scouting and roguery skills, then it's not very useful for players and wouldn't be too easy. But if you can ambush 40 people caravan with 20 people, then defending army/caravan can have better odds, and player now forced to have better understanding of ambushing ( taking care of skills he/she has, units in the army - archers are better etc )

But ambushes are all about the risk of loosing and I am afraid that until TW makes loosing a battle by a player more interesting, an ambush mechanic, even if it is fun on its own, will not be something that many of us will be using.
I get what you are coming at, but I think this really depends on the situations which player will be in. For example, it could be that you enjoy ambushing Vlandian parties as Battanian because, on open-field, their cavalry can slash your archers easily. So now with ambushing, you are actually making life way harder for them in forested areas, as well as increasing your chances to win a battle in an unfavored situation. And in another scenario, as Vlandian, now you also have to invest in your scouting skills to avoid getting ambushed by enemy parties while you are aiming to conquer the harsh forested terrain of Battania. If we have to set a gameplay-lifespan range to this feature, I would say it's better to fit for mid-game where you are not too powerful or too weak. But it's also not intrusive since you can also choose not to use it completely as well.



Let me answer your little rant Cheyros
do you actually think taleworlds is going to come on here and implement people's ideas.
The subsection is literally called Suggestions. And I'm giving one.
who cares
People who want to see this in the base game.
Do you even enjoy modding this game?
How's that related?
Your signature is full of dead mods
Eh? How's that related?
you complain taleworlds won't make your game the way you want.
lol again, as a player, I'm giving a Suggestion in the Suggestion subsection.
Also,
I don't have to continue mod for a game that is not "what I want". 99% of the player base is giving ideas to shape the game in EA state since this is why we have EA state. And since TW says they want suggestions, I'm giving one like a normal person. Just because I know how internally the company works and how the codewise game works, doesn't mean I can't suggest anything. Simple enough for you?
And on top of it you obfuscate your code and tell the community to deal with it.
I can do whatever I want with my code and my effort. I don't have to give my code to anyone or I don't have any obligation to make it open-source. Apart from toxic dudes both from the player community and modding, the rest of the people are dealing quite fine with this. If you have a problem with that, you have to deal with it.
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Great ideas, hope this will be a feature. I like the idea of ambushing.

I have a suggestions for this, how about implement a way to sabotage a siege that is being prepared by the a.i., players can ambush their camps while they are preparing their siege equipment. Not sure if this would work lol
 
Great ideas, hope this will be a feature. I like the idea of ambushing.

I have a suggestions for this, how about implement a way to sabotage a siege that is being prepared by the a.i., players can ambush their camps while they are preparing their siege equipment. Not sure if this would work lol
there is a video somewhere about a sortie while besieged. Where they tried to destroy the siege equipment before the reinforcements got to strong. This feature was canceled, but I hope it will be revisited in the future
 

NPC99

Baron
M&BWBWF&SVC
there is a video somewhere about a sortie while besieged. Where they tried to destroy the siege equipment before the reinforcements got to strong. This feature was canceled, but I hope it will be revisited in the future
It was promised in the recent Future Plans:

Sally Out Mission

Sieges in Bannerlord are quite dynamic events that can play out in a number of different ways, with one outcome being defenders sallying out to break the siege. Currently, the game will initiate a standard field battle for these encounters, which can be a little immersion breaking and isn’t truly befitting of the event. In the future, we want the sally out action to have its own dedicated mission that plays out on the relevant siege scene, making these unique events a bit more special. Forth Eorlingas!
 

Spinozart1

Squire
Some possible balance:
  • Limited by a timer / available once a day
  • Not available nearby towns and castles (villages would be ok)
  • Need a certain level in tactics/roguery to unlock it or increase the success rate
  • Not available if player have more than x troops (max troops count would be around 60) or reduce success rate
  • Efficiency and success rate will vary depending on time of the day and terrain type
  • As already written, enemy lord with high scout level would be harder to ambush
 

Errayn

Sergeant Knight
There is some ai choke points in the map if i remember correctly (for catching caravans etc). If Taleworlds ever wanted to implement Ambush mechanics they could limit this mechanic to that points of the map so it will not break the current balance of the game.

  • Not available nearby towns and castles (villages would be ok)
  • Need a certain level in tactics/roguery to unlock it or increase the success rate
  • Not available if player have more than x troops (max troops count would be around 60) or reduce success rate
  • Efficiency and success rate will vary depending on time of the day and terrain type
  • As already written, enemy lord with high scout level would be harder to ambush
those i also agree

And there was a event type of thing in warband sometimes when you enter city bandits would ambush you. implementing that and this also could be a thing for bannerlord when you in a campaing map as an event or when you build a camp you could get ambushed by small bandit group for an example.
 

Tiki_Mickey

Recruit
One can hope this gets implemented (or reimplemented technically) by TaleWorlds as it looks to enrich the variety of battles and tactics in Bannerlord. Good stuff dude.
 

RichardtheCat

Sergeant
WBWF&S
Dear @Bloc, even I've lost my interest in the game, once again you're triggering my hype with your work my friend. =)

Please don't say TW might add your mods to the game, I might believe that. Please don't say it. =)

Tbh I'm waiting for TW to complete their mistakes and leave the game to the modders. Then I'll donate you for all your mods and enjoy the game as it should be.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Top notch idea and demo - anything that adds an element of surprise to SP battles is a welcome thing indeed
 
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