Alternative Shield Blocking

[AoC]

Current shield system have many problems:
1.shields block too wide area
2.shields block attacks from all 4 directions in the same time
3.shields always get the same amount of damage, no matter how you block

How they can be fixed ?
1.shield skill can be changed to not increase forcefield during defense that much, otherwise shield speed rating/hp can be buffed, and shield skill decreased for all (by 1 or 2, if i remember right, all classes have 2 shield skill)
2. and 3.shield block can be replaced with directional block that block 3 directions, all but the opposite BUT if there is correct block, shield takes way less damage (50% reduction), shield movement also offset decreased forcefield.

How it would affect the game.
First, shield users would be less safe from archers and xbows. And it's a good thing, because those could be changed then (decreasing their rate of fire for example)
Second, good shield usage would be rewarded with shield that last longer.
Third, shield users would have to stop just holding down RMB, and start attacking if they would like to survive.

I think 'correct' block should also decrease blockcrush chance and stun time.

Spoiler: Disclaimer

I'm perfectly aware that shield system is unlikely to change. BUT if it would change, i hope it will be similar to this.

 

[CounterPoint391]

I'd thought I'd post some of the fruits of a reasoned (and highly delicious) debate I had with the above poster. We ended up skewing the thread quite a bit. Read starting from this post for some addition content on this idea. And I'll reproduce my last post there here too.....

Spoiler

Yes, shield grant too much protection from sides, to the point where it entirely protect the sides (leaving just back to attack).

Agreed, but only for melee. Ranged can score a hit on the side from the right angle.

Shield busting weapons exist, sure. But imo it's too P-R-S for me, there should be some opportunity to hit him 'correctly'. If not by simple hitting around the shield, at least there should be a way to deal more damage to shield, or perhaps even blockcrush shield user if he hold RMB all the time.

define P-R-S please? Parry, React, Strike?

Regardless, it would be nice to see weapons flagged as 'Can Crush Though Block' to be able to crush through the block of a raised shield. Unless it does that already.....

I don't like this, due to this my manual block is rusty as hell. It's counterintuitive that it's the only blocking system where you don't have to make a correct block.

Like I said, it's a tradeoff. But you disagree, which is cool too. So this point is rendered mute.

If shields would be worse, 2h and polearms should be toned down to reasonable levels. Now they are so good to offset shield godmode.

Alright, so they are balanced. Maybe you are saying that the shields have scaled weapon damage too high then?

There is option to allow auto-block. Some people would use auto-block (that would affect shields as well) as server-side option. It would be fundamental change, but a good change.

Dunno about that big of a change. Maybe a third option, like a manual/manual block, to complement the auto shield/manual parry, and auto block options. But, M&B has manual shield blocking to an extent, ie you can maneuver your shield to better cover your head or to better cover your feet. It's best illustrated in the arena melee fights in SP, as the AI will aim for the exposed part of your body, which can be blocked by moving your shield up or down.

Really, I see the best way to enhance the shield defense in the game would be to reduce the angle of protection fron the 180 or so it is now to a 110, 100, or even 90 degree sector of protection. This would force players to manually pivot to better protect their sides, while still requiring a modest degree of skill, but without making dedicated practice a necessity to avoid frustration with blocking.....

 

[FrisianDude]

2.shields block attacks from all 4 directions in the same time

It doesn't. It blocks way too much which makes it look like it does do this, but if I come up behind someone and plant a weapon in the back of their head, their shield will not do anything to stop it. The rest sounds just peachy, though, and I can fully agree with it.

 

[looy]

2.shields block attacks from all 4 directions in the same time

It doesn't. It blocks way too much which makes it look like it does do this, but if I come up behind someone and plant a weapon in the back of their head, their shield will not do anything to stop it. The rest sounds just peachy, though, and I can fully agree with it.

I think he means attack directions, like overhead, thrust etc.

Anyway, good idea.

 

[Mallissin]

This thread looks like a 2-hander's dream.

Make shields weaker, which in turn means we can make range weapons weaker, letting 2 handers live longer without a shield.

No.

Shield skill's "force field" is just the person moving the shield around without an animation. Shield's can block swings from the side, since the shields have an edge and/or all you have to do is pivot the shield. Again, just because there's no animation doesn't mean it's not possible.

And what does "shields get same amount of damage no matter how you block" mean? Shields can only block in a single fashion, unlike a weapon.

 

[AoC]

This thread looks like a 2-hander's dream.

Make shields weaker, which in turn means we can make range weapons weaker, letting 2 handers live longer without a shield.

No.

Shield skill's "force field" is just the person moving the shield around without an animation. Shield's can block swings from the side, since the shields have an edge and/or all you have to do is pivot the shield. Again, just because there's no animation doesn't mean it's not possible.

And what does "shields get same amount of damage no matter how you block" mean? Shields can only block in a single fashion, unlike a weapon.

I'm mainly 1h + shield user I use swords most of the time. I want to hurt other shield users when they are in 'turtle mode'.

Sure, it decrease difference between shield and no shield against 2h, it's a good thing. You may think it's bad, but it's actually good, as it helps 'buff' 1h+shield combination as 'shields are imba against ranged' is no longer true.

You can't strike against person who is blocking with shield in 'correct way' (you can do it against any other person, using attack that does not match his block direction), either to deal more damage to the shield or deal damage to the player. Argument that shield can block all attacks when you move it correctly is not really valid, as it can fail to block all attacks as well when you move it incorrectly - whats more, you can block attack from all attack directions at once, which is physically impossible irl and break immersion in the game.

Thats the problem, shield user is not rewarded for good block and  not penalized for bad block. Less skill is involved in blocking process, which is bad in itself. Also, it decrease possibilities for non-linear progression for shields.

2.shields block attacks from all 4 directions in the same time

It doesn't. It blocks way too much which makes it look like it does do this, but if I come up behind someone and plant a weapon in the back of their head, their shield will not do anything to stop it. The rest sounds just peachy, though, and I can fully agree with it.

I think he means attack directions, like overhead, thrust etc.

Anyway, good idea.

Yes, exactly.

 

[Mallissin]

How would you block in a specific direction with a shield, exactly?

I'm trying to imagine it and nothing is coming to mind.

 

[CounterPoint391]

If the side 'reach' of a shield were decreased, a player would have to pivot to the side to protect from a side slash. If a blow is aimed at the head, the defender would have to look up (thus raising the shield). A thrust, well, the current method deals with it just fine. The look up/down to raise/lower to cover the head/legs is already a part of the game. It's just a matter of decreasing the protective 'field' of the shield to only defend against a direct frontal attack, but be less protective against an attacker attacking 90 degrees left/right of an defender. Currently, one can aim a perfect thrust at a part of the body not covered by the shield 90 degrees to the side of the defender, but still somehow hit the shield.

By lessening the reach of a shield, the defender must pivot left or right in order to protect their side. You must raise your shield to avoid getting your head smashed. This has pros and cons. The con, obviously, is that you must somewhat manually manipulate your shield to protect yourself. The pros are: more dynamic shield combat; increased practice and reflexes to be more used to manually blocking when you lose your shield; and an easier and faster method of manually blocking. The field of protection vs arrows/bolts, however would and should remain the same, since the shield is the primary defense against ranged troops.

Also, manual blocking to this extent is not everyone's cup of tea. Therefore, I think that the implementation of this system of shield blocking should come with an option. Currently there is the automaitc blocking and the manual blocking. However, note that in manual block mode, the use of a shield is still an 'auto' block, since all you do is press and hold a button and all 4 attack directions are automaitcally blocked, covering 180 degrees of your front and sides. Therefore, a third option would call for manual block/manual shield. Shield blocking would have the advantage due to an increased surface area to 'catch' an attack. Manual blocking as it is now would remain the same, in essence being a manual block/auto shield. Automatic would also remain the same.

AoC seems to be in favor of a change of the system to manual/manual shield, but sorry man, I disagree. Three options, I feel, would be most acceptable to the greatest amount of players.

Basically, the change would be a way of enhancing shield combat in a way that no other game does.