Alternative Income through Hunting

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Mooncabbage

Sergeant
As it's possible in BW to make money in the early game through fighting in the arena, and often difficult in the early game to win against the bandit groups, I think it'd be nice for there to be more low level ways of playing the game. Farming is ok, but not terribly interactive, and I'm still waiting for Freelancer to be included in the mod (cause that sounds like lots of fun, to roleplay a hired sword, before I can even raise a decent warband). I thought I'd propose that it be made possible to make an alternative income through hunting.

Currently in the game hunting exists by attacking bands of wild animals. The problem with this is that they can be difficult to track down, and their numbers are fairly random. Additionally, you only ever find one kind of animal at a time. So without further ado, here's my thoughts:

Add an additional menu option to the camp screen, to "Go Hunting". The player then ventures out into the wilderness, and time passes at it does whilst waiting after a battle. The amount of time depends on a combination of the player's tracking and spotting skills. After the right amount of time has passed, the player is informed that they have stumbled onto a forest clearing, or a meadow, or whatever you like, basically an announcement that they've found stuff to hunt. They're presented with an option to go hunting or leave.

When the player selects to go hunting, the random battlefield is generated as per the normal hunting. The difference is that the map is populated with a random selection of huntable creatures, rather than just one sort. Some creatures could be flighty, like goats and elk, while others like boars, wolves and the like, might actively attack you. When the player leaves they collect their loot just as now, however the goods produced would differ depending on what is killed.

Pelts, furs, meat etc are all obvious loot items. If the mod ever decides to extend the current system of goods, you could add a lot more items, like bones, antlers, tusks, trophies of all sorts, that could then be sold in town.

I don't think that this would actually take too much work beyond the hunting system that already exists, it just needs polishing, and reflects the reality that wildlife is everywhere, and not just in random packs roaming around the campaign map :razz:

As an addendum, it would probably be a good idea to drastically lower the health of the creatures already in the game, I believe they are based on horses and so probably have 100+ HP, where most humans in the game are somewhere between 50-60HP, albiet with armour.

Thoughts?
 
fine idea cabbage!
i absolutely support your suggestion.
you can be a warrior, a monk, a bard, a merchant, ... - there should be a good "playground" for people wanting to be hunters too.
really an excellent idea i´d say.
hopefully the devs have the same opinion.
 
Thanks for the support :smile:

Is it bad that I want there to be bunnies and rabbits? Wabbit Season! Duck Season! Wabbit Season! Duck Season!

It occurs to me that it might be too simple to exploit it for feeding an army, so it might be an idea to have the various meat stacks be only say, 10/10 food.
 
Problem is that you can sell the food and stuff for like hundreds per item and a sword costs only about 1.6k. So either the 'new' ways of getting cash (farming, hunting etc.) give out less money or make everything else (armour, weapons etc.) more expensive.
 
Yes, it's a balancing thing, but it's a more fun way to make money than farming! Also, at low levels it's actually quite hard to kill anything. Passive mobs are too fast to chase without a horse, so you gotta be a good shot, and aggressive mobs are very dangerous (or rather, would be) for low level players. That's really the intrinsic balance there. A new character CAN make some income from hunting, but at greater risk than a more successful higher level character, who could be off making money burning villages anyway.
 
Hunting now is not for low level characters due to hight animals HP and  their speed. You must have a good horse, good ranged weapons, long spear, and hight level of weapon skill.
So you can successfully hunt in the middle of the game. But you have a lot of more important things to do. Animals HP must be decreased.
 
This was partly my point. It could be an entirely fun way to play the game all on it's own, but at the very least it could be improved as a viable way of making an income and training at low levels, as opposed to grinding out time on farms, and fighting in the arena.
 
Thorgil 说:
fine idea cabbage!
i absolutely support your suggestion.
you can be a warrior, a monk, a bard, a merchant, ... - there should be a good "playground" for people wanting to be hunters too.
really an excellent idea i´d say.
hopefully the devs have the same opinion.

and a fisherman at 1.39 version  :grin:

There are a lot of animal parties in game, "go hunting" seem too easy, no? Why you dont try find and hunt animal?
 
Idibil 说:
Thorgil 说:
fine idea cabbage!
i absolutely support your suggestion.
you can be a warrior, a monk, a bard, a merchant, ... - there should be a good "playground" for people wanting to be hunters too.
really an excellent idea i´d say.
hopefully the devs have the same opinion.

and a fisherman at 1.39 version  :grin:

There are a lot of animal parties in game, "go hunting" seem too easy, no? Why you dont try find and hunt animal?

I don't know, can you forage on the sea? If you've got a boat, I don't see why you couldn't go fishing. Gotta earn back that 25,000 somehow :razz:

Seriously though, seeing bands of animals on the world map has a few problems. One, it's not really the kind of thing that really happens. Armies you'd spot because they kick up vast amounts of dust and make lots of noise, but animals? I think not. Secondly the animal mobs that do appear are completely homogenous. You never see a wolf or a boar in the same area as deer or goats. Thirdly, it creates an impression that wild animals can only be found very rarely.

With my proposed system of simply choosing to "go hunting" as a menu option, it makes it more viable for low level players to go hunting without having to trek across an entire map chasing down fast moving animal mobs, dodging bandits along the way. Last time I checked hunters usually didn't have to track goat herds across the length of the british isles to find breakfast. As it is now, animals mobs are not that common. Maybe they spawn and are killed by bandits, I don't know, but I don't see them very often.

What I'm proposing is really a repurposing of the current hunting mechanics for a new purpose. Currently, if you actually manage to take something down (which is a HUGE if, and it's impossible at low level), you wind up with an unbelievably huge stack of meat (apparently one wolf can feed 150 men!), which you can also sell in town for 200 odd gamebucks. And it's always meat. The other day I saw a pack of deer, chased them from oxenforda to the scottish border, and killed all 17 of them. I made a good packet of money but only because I had a horse and a long spear.

Instead of all that I think it'd be quite fun, to be able to enter a hunting battle map, filled with a variety of wildlife, some of which might try to kill you, to try to get a few bucks from meat and pelts. Obviously to prevent exploiting it to feed huge armies, you need to drastically reduce the availability of meat, but just reducing each meat stack to an appropriate size for one animal (maybe 50 for a boar, for example), should prevent it being the #1 way of feeding your army.

I just woke up, so I don't think I'm making this very clear. The point is to make hunting something that's fun that you can do entirely on it's own.
 
What we can do and what we cannt do:

Do:

-Add more animal parties and add more animals in each party.

Not:

-Create a place with a lot of differents animals for player hunting. This can mean new issues in 1.39, and it isnt very real.


Hunting was generally to horse and spear, if you see late roman pictures, you can see that.
You have skills that can help to you in hunting like track, add more vision, ect... Be hunter is possible  :grin:
 
Is it not possible to create groups with more than one unit type in them? I would have thought it was fairly straight forward.
 
would be somehow strange if wolves and deers peacefully walking around in the same map.  :???:

Idibil 说:
What we can do and what we cannt do:

Do:

-Add more animal parties and add more animals in each party.

sounds good to me.
 
How about goats and deer then? That seems plausible to me. It's just that not all the animals fit together. Nevertheless, it's a feature I can live without.

Also, a 'go hunting' option would be much appreciated since it's true that a hunter often doesn't need to travel too far to find some game. A reduction in animal HP and meat quantity as well as a reduction in the (selling) price of meat would be nice too.
Wolves and boars being aggressive sounds like a good idea as well, but I'm not sure how much work that'd be for the devs.
 
A reduction in the price of food in general might be a good idea. The cost of maintaining an army just in terms of wages is enough, feeding them can get very expensive very quickly.

I can see how it might be difficult having wolves in the same hunting area as non-carnivores, since I suspect due to engine limitations they won't attack the deer (because they're on the same team). Personally, if you only spawn one or two wolves on each hunting map, I'd be perfectly happy with that, and I doubt you'd notice that they weren't hunting the other animals. It's also a good idea to have less wolves as a balancing thing, since if they give fur or pelts (maybe 5 pelts could be combined into 1 fur), that makes them pretty valuable. Also I would make them aggressive to the player. I'd also make wild boar aggressive.

Overall, hunting would be a nice feature to have, but it's not really necessary to the core game. It's just a cool expanded feature. I question the gameplay value of hunting as it stands, but getting it right is probably a reasonable amount of work. First of all, all the animals need an overhaul. Their stats and loot needs tweaking, they need to have the right sounds added (a running wolf doesn't sound like a horse and I'm pretty sure goats don't neigh), and in the perfect world, they'd have their animations and models redone. I understand if the devs choose not to include it, but personally I think it'd be a great future, and a unique addition to the mod. What I like about BW is that it tries to be more than a glorified fighting game, or a war simulator. It tries to be a dark ages simulator, and for the most part it succeeds brilliantly. I want to see more of it.
 
I will take look into at hunting for 1.39, but I dont promise nothing.

If we low food cost, hunting is less interesting, no? You cannt win money with it then.
Too, foraging skill lose interest with food more cheap.
 
Balancing food isn't something with an obvious answer. The idea of hunting is not to provide vast amounts of food. Even by this time, that would be impractical. So I think it would be acceptable to have smaller food stacks JUST from hunted animals. Sort of gourmet food if you will. It might feed your small party but more realistically it could be used as a sale good. Another alternative to giving food from hunting is to supply trophy goods, pelts, antlers and horns, which could be sold in town for cash.

I have no expectation that the devs do anything about hunting, I'm just suggesting alternatives and solutions to existing problems.
 
I think food price must stay as it is. But add some new items: "Dried goat meat", "Dried boar meat", etc... Let them be more expensive than ordinary dried meat. So you can hunt, dry it, and make money. And it also should provide more moral boost for your troops than ordinary dried meat. And obviously you must have furs and hides also.
 
The problem is balancing hunting. You don't want players to make too much money from it. For example, as it stands it's possible to kill more than a dozen animals from one herd. If those animals are netting you 400 or so profit per kill, you're making a lot more money out of it than from anything else in the game, and with far less risk.
 
I completely support OP's proposal and the Dev's would be missing out if they left it out in coming developments. It seems perfect to me, very smart and immersive. I am surprised it wasn't thought of before and there isn't a Submod for it!

The current 'hunting' system is the only marr I have yet to find in gameplay (aside from unbalanced coinage). I cannot imagine myself finding many more, so for me if this new proposed hunting system were to be enforced it would create a complete and perfect gameplay experiance for me.

Unsure if this is possible but what about the Wolves as well as attacking you but actively attacking deer etc?
 
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