SP - General Allies blocking your attacks (Edited title)

[Kreu2009]

Currently you constantly get stuck on allies behind you because the animation looks like this:


Please change it to this:


That would solve the problem and the animation would still be readable.

Here a video to showcase the problem:


As long as somebody is blocking behind you, you can't attack targets in front of you.
In the first part of the video i try attacking while my men are blocking behind me. Even after i take a step forward, pretty much all of my attacks get stuck on my allies.
In the second part im in the middle of a melee brawl and approxiamately half of my attacks get blocked by allies behind me.
In the last part you first can see that my enemys take quite a lot time to react me shooting them. Then they attack me and i survive quite long just because their attacks get constantly stuck. I really think that needs to be fixed.

I include this answer of Jackthe***** in my post.
Check out his discussion on the mod Page.

Hey guys, about the collision problem of troops running into each other I made a mod to fix this: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/495?tab=posts&BH=2

Now about your attacks being blocked, I have noticed this issue too and it's bugged me since release. I've spent a lot of time trying to fix this but no luck. I left a comment on my mod page that explains why this issue happens. It is not a problem with the animation, but with the weapon's collision (where in the animation the collision starts and where it stops). Ideally, in the swing/thrust animation, the collision should start when you swing/thrust reaches the front of your body. It should not start at the very start of your swing (which is behind your head). However, after this problem has been solved, the animation could indeed be improved too so as to not swing through your allies heads when in formation. ideally it should start somewhere above your head. For more detailed explanation of why this issue happens, read my comment on my mod page, it is explained there.

Edit:
Title because its not only the overhead attack but also the stab that is problematic.
Added Jackthe*****'s answer.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I don't agree.

There are other animations that may cause some controversy such as the two-handed axe handle, the menavlion swing etc.. However, the one-handed weapon animation is well achieved; the blow needs a wider angle to strike with the greatest possible force.

The problem of weapons that get stuck is a problem that has been seen since the alpha period; the same applies to spears. I don't think it's a problem of animation but rather of hitboxes and capsule colliders.

 

[Tovgiv]

I hope that the developers will work on a range of weapons (zones without a physical stop). The problem has already been noticed and fixed in the multiplayer that you are talking about, but the problem of stuck weapons remains on the sides.

I stopped studying the range of one-handed weapons, because it is still stuck due to each object. Therefore, I am deprived of the opportunity to study all weapons due to the fact that it does not give its properties in practice (Literally, a weapon is just a dress code or a stick to strike).

 

[Kreu2009]

I don't think it's a problem of animation but rather of hitboxes and capsule colliders.

You can clearly see my sword hitting the shields of the guys behind me, so why is it an hitbox issue?
If my sword would just phase throug their shields it would be an hitbox issue.

 

[TheMainCharacter]

I don't agree.

There are other animations that may cause some controversy such as the two-handed axe handle, the menavlion swing etc.. However, the one-handed weapon animation is well achieved; the blow needs a wider angle to strike with the greatest possible force.

The problem of weapons that get stuck is a problem that has been seen since the alpha period; the same applies to spears. I don't think it's a problem of animation but rather of hitboxes and capsule colliders.

Oh no people start using forged in fire as historical references...
Im loosing hope...
Look up some sword and shield fighting techniques on youtube:
You always want to avoid telegraphing your attacks to much.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Oh no people start using forged in fire as historical references...
Im loosing hope...
Look up some sword and shield fighting techniques on youtube:
You always want to avoid telegraphing your attacks to much.

No historical reference, just an untrained person hitting with a 1h sword.

 

[Ackdam]

Consider the weapon and surroundings: You have a sword, which is pointy and sharp, a bunch of hostile enemies in front of you which you want to hit with the pointy/sharp object you are holding. Your first reaction might be to generate as much power as possible by arcing back behind you. The issue here is that you, ideally, have a bunch of friendly troops around and behind you. If you swing back too far the pointy/sharp object goes into them instead. Aside from that, you would also want your weapon in a place that you can easily shift to blocking if needed. If the weapon is behind you head it isn't going to do much about the blade currently aimed at your neck/chest/gut/legs. The weapons should indeed be a bit more controlled, at least while friendly troops are nearby.

I may even go so far as to say that certain attacks should become unavailable. I have a penchant for smacking the flanks of my mounted troops while we are both attempting to hit the poor peasant stuck between us who just wants to run away. Quite annoying, especially when they happen to run up next to me right when I go to swing. Ideally, they also need to either:

1. Force spacing so everyone can engage correctly.
2. Cause damage for those who are in the front of tight groups or stuck between horses.

 

[h1zchan]

Agree with op. The overhead swing should be delivered from Guardia Alta for singleswords and from high vom tag with two handed swords.

guardia alta

High vom tag

 

[h1zchan]

I've also noticed even thrusts get stuck on teammates behind you. Perhaps there's some deeper issue with collision detection in the current build of bannerlord

 

[h1zchan]

I don't agree.

There are other animations that may cause some controversy such as the two-handed axe handle, the menavlion swing etc.. However, the one-handed weapon animation is well achieved; the blow needs a wider angle to strike with the greatest possible force.

The problem of weapons that get stuck is a problem that has been seen since the alpha period; the same applies to spears. I don't think it's a problem of animation but rather of hitboxes and capsule colliders.

The guy in the video is performing destructive test on a pell that doesn't fight back. When you're fencing a live opponent you can't swing like that as it takes too long for the sword to travel to your front front that position.

Last year I fenced some guy at my local hema club after months without training and i kept failing to bring my oberhau down in time. Fortunately he recorded the fight so i was able to look at the footage to figure out what went wrong. Turns out my form had deteriorated after months without training and my high vom tag had my sword pointing backwards as opposed to upwards like shown in the historical manuals. So of course cutting from the backward position like a cave men got me killed. In fact even kendo teaches you to point your sword upwards as opposed to backwards. It's done that way for a reason.

 

[ScrotumScratcher]

please fix this taleworlds

 

[Ackdam]

The guy in the video is performing a destructive test on a pell that doesn't fight back. When you're fencing a live opponent you can't swing like that as it takes too long for the sword to travel to your front from that position.

Thank you for adding that. I was debating whether or not to edit my post. Then I got distracted and forgot all about it until I saw my notification.

Also, thank you for bringing in a viewpoint of someone who actually uses a sword in combat (non-lethal, but still closer than most of us have been). If your opponent isn't swinging away like a neanderthal, then you probably shouldn't be either. I've studied kendo quite a bit more than fencing, so I knew exactly what you were describing in that case.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

enjoy

 

[Ackdam]

Hah. I've actually seen that before. Unfortunately, with the number of flying kicks, I'd have to put it more into the category of just trying to beat your opponent into submission rather than realistic/skilled combat.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I repeat, the animation is fine (this one in particular does), you are confusing the " full blown strike " with the high guard position (Page 118-119 Medieval swordsmanship : illustrated methods and techniques). This animation is made to be readable by the user. The current "problem" is a problem of "colliders" in itself; this also happens when you try to stab with a spear and you are close to a wall. Check out the video from 2016 where this "problem" did not happen.

 

[Kreu2009]

This animation is made to be readable by the user

I totally agree that this is very important. But my suggestion doesn't make it more difficult at all to read the animation. Its only slightly changing the angle of the wrist. You can still clearly see its an downward strike.

The current "problem" is a problem of "colliders" in itself

I already asked you that and you didn't answer.

You can clearly see my sword hitting the shields of the guys behind me, so why is it an hitbox issue?
If my sword would just phase throug their shields it would be an hitbox issue.

Again you can see my sword hitting my allies shield even if their characters aren't glitching into mine. Even with a nice distance between me an them this does happen. So of course it gets stuck on their hitboxes. You could fix it by making the first few frames of an attack ignore collision. But you can also slightly tweak the animation.

In the video you provided there are indeed no problems. It looks like the spacing between soldiers is big enough to avoid attacks getting stuck on them.
There are already threads that talk about collision issues and i hope taleworlds can do something about it.
But you can see in my Video:

that even if the spacing is quite big, even bigger than in your video, my overhead attack still clearly hits my allies shield.
So i suggest to change the animation instead of letting attacks ignore collision on the first frames.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I already asked you that and you didn't answer.

I apologize for that then. When we talk about interference with colliders, we are certainly talking about that "living space" between the PC/bot - bot/bot that currently does not work as it should. Taleworlds is aware of the problem with this extremely narrow "living space"; in fact I gave them feedback on it:
Agent overlap issue in flock movement


Therefore, in my eyes the animation is well articulated; the real problem lies in the colliders ("living space").

 

[h1zchan]

enjoy

Ask anyone in hema circle most will tell you buhurt guys generally have poor form and techniques and are generally relying on brute force. The armor they wear arent really accurate replica of period armor. Their swords are also much heavier than the real thing because in effect those are sword shaped maces designed to inflict blunt trauma. Botn is a modern entertainment sport that doesn't really have much historical value. To learn knightly armored fighting techniques you should study the grappling techniques described in Fiore's manuscripts. Alternatively read Ringeck or maybe Jude Lew. Check out Dierk Hagedorn's youtube channel to get a glimpse.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

Use a shorter sword. Long swords are for Cav. I would be annoyed to if someone brought a sword like that to my formation. But yeah i can feel you at times, however i like that you can miss hit and get physically blocked

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Ask anyone in hema circle most will tell you buhurt guys generally have poor form and techniques and are generally relying on brute force. The armor they wear arent really accurate replica of period armor. Their swords are also much heavier than the real thing because in effect those are sword shaped maces designed to inflict blunt trauma. Botn is a modern entertainment sport that doesn't really have much historical value. To learn knightly armored fighting techniques you should study the grappling techniques described in Fiore's manuscripts. Alternatively read Ringeck or maybe Jude Lew. Check out Dierk Hagedorn's youtube channel to get a glimpse.

Thank you for the very kind references you wanted to instruct me in this very altruistic way. However, through the videos that I have shared as an " illustrative" way, I am not emphasizing anything in the orbit of Hema, Botn or historical recreation martial arts. Rather, I'm focusing on how the arm moves when attacking with a full blown strike and how that angle (right performed) interferes with the collider capsules (poorly positioned nowadays) within Bannerlord, the video game. That's what we're talking about in the first place, right?