AI Strategy: Cossaks vs Poles. Any tips?

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Saiko Kila

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I have joined Polish faction, which is in war with Cossacks. I haven't started the plot, because I've heard it involves fighting with Swedish, Turks and Muscovites, which I want to avoid. Now my little problem is, that AI of my allied lords is completely different than enemy Cossacks. Here are differences:

Cossacks:
1. Gang up with around 10 armies, usually under Khmelnitsky, but sometimes under different lord. They do it consistently, even after defeat.
2. Go to one city/castle, siege it, and then of course take it.
3. When fighting Poles, they try (and success) with dividing enemies, so they fight one army at a time.
4. After conquering a town or castle they install a sizable garrison, like 200-300. Poles trying to recapture the fortress usually stand no chance, because average Polish army is at most as big as half of the garrison.

Poles:
1. Usually go alone, or with only one friend. Earlier they were teaming up to six armies, but apparently got bored with that idea.
2. When besieging, they go with insufficient numbers, and siege for a couple of days, they abandon siege. Earlier, when they were forming larger groups I was witness to following scene: King Casimir with allies went to siege Cherkassy. After one day they went to siege Kiev Korsun. After another day they went  to siege Cherkassy again. After repeating they got bored and went to burn some villages. After another couple of days Khmelnitsky with armies of 1300 people came, and started to eliminate Poles one by one. If they ganged up on him they would probably win, but such an idea never occured to them.
3. When fighting enemies they allow them to gang up on Polish armies, and separate them. They don't like to chase for too long, instead prefer to fight foragers or looters.
4. After conquering a castle (usually with my gratuitous help) they don't bother to install much garrison if any. So I don't know why Cossacks with they 1000-1500 men don't storm it right away, but usually lay siege for a couple of day, before commencing battle. There is one castle I was recapturing five times, and of course never awarded, so it will be lost again soon.

Now I know, that if I was a marshal, I could order Poles to combine their forces and strike where it hurts. But I'm not. When I try to convince any lord to follow me I fail, but even if I don't, two armies would be not enough. I started to pick up Cossack lords one by one, and if I capture one, I usually put them in my fortress' dungeon. But it doesn't help much, because others take at most a week to reorganize and try to recapture some city. When King Casimir was offed by Cossacks, he was "out of town" for a month! (and I was mercenary then, so I lost payment for that period). Besides Cossacks started to travel in groups of two armies of more, and they are incredible shooters.

Now I'm wondering if these differences are hard coded, or this is caused by me taking a side, so if I was Cossack, then Poles would show a brilliant strategy, and Cossacks would be asses? Or there are "national" differences? Cossacks seem to be most badass in my game. Swedes for instance are less benign, and they hold less territory than any others, except Tatars (Swedes even conquered their capital, Bakhchisaray, and have defended it like ten times, the town is now almost a ruin, hehe). But Poles, despite large territory, seems to be just behind Tatars when it comes to ineptness. I don't know how to help them with my army of 100-110 people.
 
Saiko Kila said:
I have joined Polish faction, which is in war with Cossacks. I haven't started the plot, because I've heard it involves fighting with Swedish, Turks and Muscovites, which I want to avoid. Now my little problem is, that AI of my allied lords is completely different than enemy Cossacks. Here are differences:

Cossacks:
1. Gang up with around 10 armies, usually under Khmelnitsky, but sometimes under different lord. They do it consistently, even after defeat.
2. Go to one city/castle, siege it, and then of course take it.
3. When fighting Poles, they try (and success) with dividing enemies, so they fight one army at a time.
4. After conquering a town or castle they install a sizable garrison, like 200-300. Poles trying to recapture the fortress usually stand no chance, because average Polish army is at most as big as half of the garrison.

Poles:
1. Usually go alone, or with only one friend. Earlier they were teaming up to six armies, but apparently got bored with that idea.
2. When besieging, they go with insufficient numbers, and siege for a couple of days, they abandon siege. Earlier, when they were forming larger groups I was witness to following scene: King Casimir with allies went to siege Cherkassy. After one day they went to siege Kiev Korsun. After another day they went  to siege Cherkassy again. After repeating they got bored and went to burn some villages. After another couple of days Khmelnitsky with armies of 1300 people came, and started to eliminate Poles one by one. If they ganged up on him they would probably win, but such an idea never occured to them.
3. When fighting enemies they allow them to gang up on Polish armies, and separate them. They don't like to chase for too long, instead prefer to fight foragers or looters.
4. After conquering a castle (usually with my gratuitous help) they don't bother to install much garrison if any. So I don't know why Cossacks with they 1000-1500 men don't storm it right away, but usually lay siege for a couple of day, before commencing battle. There is one castle I was recapturing five times, and of course never awarded, so it will be lost again soon.

Now I know, that if I was a marshal, I could order Poles to combine their forces and strike where it hurts. But I'm not. When I try to convince any lord to follow me I fail, but even if I don't, two armies would be not enough. I started to pick up Cossack lords one by one, and if I capture one, I usually put them in my fortress' dungeon. But it doesn't help much, because others take at most a week to reorganize and try to recapture some city. When King Casimir was offed by Cossacks, he was "out of town" for a month! (and I was mercenary then, so I lost payment for that period). Besides Cossacks started to travel in groups of two armies of more, and they are incredible shooters.

Now I'm wondering if these differences are hard coded, or this is caused by me taking a side, so if I was Cossack, then Poles would show a brilliant strategy, and Cossacks would be asses? Or there are "national" differences? Cossacks seem to be most badass in my game. Swedes for instance are less benign, and they hold less territory than any others, except Tatars (Swedes even conquered their capital, Bakhchisaray, and have defended it like ten times, the town is now almost a ruin, hehe). But Poles, despite large territory, seems to be just behind Tatars when it comes to ineptness. I don't know how to help them with my army of 100-110 people.

Once you start the Deluge, get Zagloba into your group, the Polish empire gets decimated from all sides.  They will lose Warsaw and Karkov fairly quick....part of the storyline, and if you do not progress quickly....there may not be much of an empire left to save or play with when you become Marshal.  The first game I played along the Polish storyline, I messed around as a merc for awhile and by the time I did the relic quest, the Polish were down to 3 towns/fortress.  I restarted and built my renown up to 150 first by soloing a lot of bandit groups and when I joined the Polish faction advanced much faster getting the relic quest behind me and advancing to the Crimean Khanate part.  During this part you get to be a marshal for the rebels and can attack the Cossacks, Moscovite and Swedes....the rebels were at war with all 3 groups except the Polish.  I took 4-5 towns/fortress from the Cossacks and 2-3 towns from the Moscovite.  This took a lot of pressure off the Polish faction and during this time and they did not lose anymore towns/fortressess.
 
Valorius said:
Saiko Kila said:
I have joined Polish faction, which is in war with Cossacks. I haven't started the plot, because I've heard it involves fighting with Swedish, Turks and Muscovites, which I want to avoid. Now my little problem is, that AI of my allied lords is completely different than enemy Cossacks. Here are differences:

Cossacks:
1. Gang up with around 10 armies, usually under Khmelnitsky, but sometimes under different lord. They do it consistently, even after defeat.
2. Go to one city/castle, siege it, and then of course take it.
3. When fighting Poles, they try (and success) with dividing enemies, so they fight one army at a time.
4. After conquering a town or castle they install a sizable garrison, like 200-300. Poles trying to recapture the fortress usually stand no chance, because average Polish army is at most as big as half of the garrison.

Poles:
1. Usually go alone, or with only one friend. Earlier they were teaming up to six armies, but apparently got bored with that idea.
2. When besieging, they go with insufficient numbers, and siege for a couple of days, they abandon siege. Earlier, when they were forming larger groups I was witness to following scene: King Casimir with allies went to siege Cherkassy. After one day they went to siege Kiev Korsun. After another day they went  to siege Cherkassy again. After repeating they got bored and went to burn some villages. After another couple of days Khmelnitsky with armies of 1300 people came, and started to eliminate Poles one by one. If they ganged up on him they would probably win, but such an idea never occured to them.
3. When fighting enemies they allow them to gang up on Polish armies, and separate them. They don't like to chase for too long, instead prefer to fight foragers or looters.
4. After conquering a castle (usually with my gratuitous help) they don't bother to install much garrison if any. So I don't know why Cossacks with they 1000-1500 men don't storm it right away, but usually lay siege for a couple of day, before commencing battle. There is one castle I was recapturing five times, and of course never awarded, so it will be lost again soon.

Now I know, that if I was a marshal, I could order Poles to combine their forces and strike where it hurts. But I'm not. When I try to convince any lord to follow me I fail, but even if I don't, two armies would be not enough. I started to pick up Cossack lords one by one, and if I capture one, I usually put them in my fortress' dungeon. But it doesn't help much, because others take at most a week to reorganize and try to recapture some city. When King Casimir was offed by Cossacks, he was "out of town" for a month! (and I was mercenary then, so I lost payment for that period). Besides Cossacks started to travel in groups of two armies of more, and they are incredible shooters.

Now I'm wondering if these differences are hard coded, or this is caused by me taking a side, so if I was Cossack, then Poles would show a brilliant strategy, and Cossacks would be asses? Or there are "national" differences? Cossacks seem to be most badass in my game. Swedes for instance are less benign, and they hold less territory than any others, except Tatars (Swedes even conquered their capital, Bakhchisaray, and have defended it like ten times, the town is now almost a ruin, hehe). But Poles, despite large territory, seems to be just behind Tatars when it comes to ineptness. I don't know how to help them with my army of 100-110 people.

Once you start the Deluge, get Zagloba into your group, the Polish empire gets decimated from all sides.  They will lose Warsaw and Karkov fairly quick....part of the storyline, and if you do not progress quickly....there may not be much of an empire left to save or play with when you become Marshal.  The first game I played along the Polish storyline, I messed around as a merc for awhile and by the time I did the relic quest, the Polish were down to 3 towns/fortress.  I restarted and built my renown up to 150 first by soloing a lot of bandit groups and when I joined the Polish faction advanced much faster getting the relic quest behind me and advancing to the Crimean Khanate part.  During this part you get to be a marshal for the rebels and can attack the Cossacks, Moscovite and Swedes....the rebels were at war with all 3 groups except the Polish.  I took 4-5 towns/fortress from the Cossacks and 2-3 towns from the Moscovite.  This took a lot of pressure off the Polish faction and during this time and they did not lose anymore towns/fortressess.

Thanks. That means I shouldn't worry too much about Polish well-being for now. Are Cossacks (their lords, villages or cities) needed for anything in the Polish storyline? Because maybe I will be able to wipe them out, taking the opportunity of war, which could help me in future. Less enemies, less worries.
 
If the huge enemy numbers are your problem do what i do :smile:.
Kill there armies in 1 go :smile: i took down an army of 900 cossack's with my army of 107 men and only lost 13 men to death in the battle all of whom were replaced by elite faction troops i set free in the process :smile:.
If you can wipe out enough armies and carry off 2-3 prisoners ur good just pick them off a couple at a time and lock them up once uve locked up enough of them the polish will come back on there own because of pure numerical advantage and because the cossack are spread to thinly to defend everything.
 
mesor said:
If the huge enemy numbers are your problem do what i do :smile:.
Kill there armies in 1 go :smile: i took down an army of 900 cossack's with my army of 107 men and only lost 13 men to death in the battle all of whom were replaced by elite faction troops i set free in the process :smile:.
If you can wipe out enough armies and carry off 2-3 prisoners ur good just pick them off a couple at a time and lock them up once uve locked up enough of them the polish will come back on there own because of pure numerical advantage and because the cossack are spread to thinly to defend everything.

But I can't win a battle with 107 against 900 cossacks. I can win when the ratio is 1:2 or even 1:3, but the higher it is, the higher are my lossess (by percentage). When I stand against 900 guys I start only with a handful of my men - less than 20, with max Tactics at 7. So it is possible to win 100 vs 100 without any lossess, though it depends on terrain and luck (army compositions). But higher than that - there will be losses. Even if I use the Murderous Hussar Lance. Cossacks have very efficient shooters and a lot of them. And not bad cavalry, at least quite effective against my men.

And so far the good tactics against cities was water poisoning, but this is available only to certain cities, these near rivers.

Anyway, what I'm doing now is to mimic their style, which is to provoke the last army in their group. If they are far enough and nobody (or only one) of their allies joins, then I can win.
 
i dont see how tactics helps because i had it a 5 once but it never really helped its usually 158 vs my 15  ?
 
nalmighty said:
i dont see how tactics helps because i had it a 5 once but it never really helped its usually 158 vs my 15  ?

I believe the higher tactics, the more men will enter the fight at the beginning. But the algorithm (as I've read) compares also enemies Tactics, or something which they use instead. Probably if there are many enemy lords, their highest tactics is used. Or maybe even they give bonus on each other.
 
Saiko Kila said:
Valorius said:
Saiko Kila said:
I have joined Polish faction, which is in war with Cossacks. I haven't started the plot, because I've heard it involves fighting with Swedish, Turks and Muscovites, which I want to avoid. Now my little problem is, that AI of my allied lords is completely different than enemy Cossacks. Here are differences:

Cossacks:
1. Gang up with around 10 armies, usually under Khmelnitsky, but sometimes under different lord. They do it consistently, even after defeat.
2. Go to one city/castle, siege it, and then of course take it.
3. When fighting Poles, they try (and success) with dividing enemies, so they fight one army at a time.
4. After conquering a town or castle they install a sizable garrison, like 200-300. Poles trying to recapture the fortress usually stand no chance, because average Polish army is at most as big as half of the garrison.

Poles:
1. Usually go alone, or with only one friend. Earlier they were teaming up to six armies, but apparently got bored with that idea.
2. When besieging, they go with insufficient numbers, and siege for a couple of days, they abandon siege. Earlier, when they were forming larger groups I was witness to following scene: King Casimir with allies went to siege Cherkassy. After one day they went to siege Kiev Korsun. After another day they went  to siege Cherkassy again. After repeating they got bored and went to burn some villages. After another couple of days Khmelnitsky with armies of 1300 people came, and started to eliminate Poles one by one. If they ganged up on him they would probably win, but such an idea never occured to them.
3. When fighting enemies they allow them to gang up on Polish armies, and separate them. They don't like to chase for too long, instead prefer to fight foragers or looters.
4. After conquering a castle (usually with my gratuitous help) they don't bother to install much garrison if any. So I don't know why Cossacks with they 1000-1500 men don't storm it right away, but usually lay siege for a couple of day, before commencing battle. There is one castle I was recapturing five times, and of course never awarded, so it will be lost again soon.

Now I know, that if I was a marshal, I could order Poles to combine their forces and strike where it hurts. But I'm not. When I try to convince any lord to follow me I fail, but even if I don't, two armies would be not enough. I started to pick up Cossack lords one by one, and if I capture one, I usually put them in my fortress' dungeon. But it doesn't help much, because others take at most a week to reorganize and try to recapture some city. When King Casimir was offed by Cossacks, he was "out of town" for a month! (and I was mercenary then, so I lost payment for that period). Besides Cossacks started to travel in groups of two armies of more, and they are incredible shooters.

Now I'm wondering if these differences are hard coded, or this is caused by me taking a side, so if I was Cossack, then Poles would show a brilliant strategy, and Cossacks would be asses? Or there are "national" differences? Cossacks seem to be most badass in my game. Swedes for instance are less benign, and they hold less territory than any others, except Tatars (Swedes even conquered their capital, Bakhchisaray, and have defended it like ten times, the town is now almost a ruin, hehe). But Poles, despite large territory, seems to be just behind Tatars when it comes to ineptness. I don't know how to help them with my army of 100-110 people.

Once you start the Deluge, get Zagloba into your group, the Polish empire gets decimated from all sides.  They will lose Warsaw and Karkov fairly quick....part of the storyline, and if you do not progress quickly....there may not be much of an empire left to save or play with when you become Marshal.  The first game I played along the Polish storyline, I messed around as a merc for awhile and by the time I did the relic quest, the Polish were down to 3 towns/fortress.  I restarted and built my renown up to 150 first by soloing a lot of bandit groups and when I joined the Polish faction advanced much faster getting the relic quest behind me and advancing to the Crimean Khanate part.  During this part you get to be a marshal for the rebels and can attack the Cossacks, Moscovite and Swedes....the rebels were at war with all 3 groups except the Polish.  I took 4-5 towns/fortress from the Cossacks and 2-3 towns from the Moscovite.  This took a lot of pressure off the Polish faction and during this time and they did not lose anymore towns/fortressess.

Thanks. That means I shouldn't worry too much about Polish well-being for now. Are Cossacks (their lords, villages or cities) needed for anything in the Polish storyline? Because maybe I will be able to wipe them out, taking the opportunity of war, which could help me in future. Less enemies, less worries.

Basically no, you will have to fight them when you are leading the Crimean rebellion.  At the end, after the Deluge, you have to wipe out all other factions.  However, there is only one reason to not wipe them out too early....when a faction dies and is totally eliminated, the lords that belong to that faction will migrate to all the other factions.  So the remaining factions will get more lords.  In my opinion, it is best to wipe out the Swedes first...the swedish reiters are the best castle defenders in my opinion....they can shoot and melee and wear lots of armor.
 
Valorius said:
Saiko Kila said:
Valorius said:
Saiko Kila said:
I have joined Polish faction, which is in war with Cossacks. I haven't started the plot, because I've heard it involves fighting with Swedish, Turks and Muscovites, which I want to avoid. Now my little problem is, that AI of my allied lords is completely different than enemy Cossacks. Here are differences:

Cossacks:
1. Gang up with around 10 armies, usually under Khmelnitsky, but sometimes under different lord. They do it consistently, even after defeat.
2. Go to one city/castle, siege it, and then of course take it.
3. When fighting Poles, they try (and success) with dividing enemies, so they fight one army at a time.
4. After conquering a town or castle they install a sizable garrison, like 200-300. Poles trying to recapture the fortress usually stand no chance, because average Polish army is at most as big as half of the garrison.

Poles:
1. Usually go alone, or with only one friend. Earlier they were teaming up to six armies, but apparently got bored with that idea.
2. When besieging, they go with insufficient numbers, and siege for a couple of days, they abandon siege. Earlier, when they were forming larger groups I was witness to following scene: King Casimir with allies went to siege Cherkassy. After one day they went to siege Kiev Korsun. After another day they went  to siege Cherkassy again. After repeating they got bored and went to burn some villages. After another couple of days Khmelnitsky with armies of 1300 people came, and started to eliminate Poles one by one. If they ganged up on him they would probably win, but such an idea never occured to them.
3. When fighting enemies they allow them to gang up on Polish armies, and separate them. They don't like to chase for too long, instead prefer to fight foragers or looters.
4. After conquering a castle (usually with my gratuitous help) they don't bother to install much garrison if any. So I don't know why Cossacks with they 1000-1500 men don't storm it right away, but usually lay siege for a couple of day, before commencing battle. There is one castle I was recapturing five times, and of course never awarded, so it will be lost again soon.

Now I know, that if I was a marshal, I could order Poles to combine their forces and strike where it hurts. But I'm not. When I try to convince any lord to follow me I fail, but even if I don't, two armies would be not enough. I started to pick up Cossack lords one by one, and if I capture one, I usually put them in my fortress' dungeon. But it doesn't help much, because others take at most a week to reorganize and try to recapture some city. When King Casimir was offed by Cossacks, he was "out of town" for a month! (and I was mercenary then, so I lost payment for that period). Besides Cossacks started to travel in groups of two armies of more, and they are incredible shooters.

Now I'm wondering if these differences are hard coded, or this is caused by me taking a side, so if I was Cossack, then Poles would show a brilliant strategy, and Cossacks would be asses? Or there are "national" differences? Cossacks seem to be most badass in my game. Swedes for instance are less benign, and they hold less territory than any others, except Tatars (Swedes even conquered their capital, Bakhchisaray, and have defended it like ten times, the town is now almost a ruin, hehe). But Poles, despite large territory, seems to be just behind Tatars when it comes to ineptness. I don't know how to help them with my army of 100-110 people.

Once you start the Deluge, get Zagloba into your group, the Polish empire gets decimated from all sides.  They will lose Warsaw and Karkov fairly quick....part of the storyline, and if you do not progress quickly....there may not be much of an empire left to save or play with when you become Marshal.  The first game I played along the Polish storyline, I messed around as a merc for awhile and by the time I did the relic quest, the Polish were down to 3 towns/fortress.  I restarted and built my renown up to 150 first by soloing a lot of bandit groups and when I joined the Polish faction advanced much faster getting the relic quest behind me and advancing to the Crimean Khanate part.  During this part you get to be a marshal for the rebels and can attack the Cossacks, Moscovite and Swedes....the rebels were at war with all 3 groups except the Polish.  I took 4-5 towns/fortress from the Cossacks and 2-3 towns from the Moscovite.  This took a lot of pressure off the Polish faction and during this time and they did not lose anymore towns/fortressess.

Thanks. That means I shouldn't worry too much about Polish well-being for now. Are Cossacks (their lords, villages or cities) needed for anything in the Polish storyline? Because maybe I will be able to wipe them out, taking the opportunity of war, which could help me in future. Less enemies, less worries.

Basically no, you will have to fight them when you are leading the Crimean rebellion.  At the end, after the Deluge, you have to wipe out all other factions.  However, there is only one reason to not wipe them out too early....when a faction dies and is totally eliminated, the lords that belong to that faction will migrate to all the other factions.  So the remaining factions will get more lords.  In my opinion, it is best to wipe out the Swedes first...the swedish reiters are the best castle defenders in my opinion....they can shoot and melee and wear lots of armor.

I hoped that some of Cossacks would join ranks of Commonwealth, not only of prospective enemies. Hm, Swedes are tough nuts it seems, and I'd need to provoke a war with them. Maybe I just leave a city or two of Cossacks before starting the quest, which I can do any moment now.
 
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