AI having troubles with the new terrain

[Nahkuri]

*insert a pitiful excuse for clumsy english here*

I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but I'm too damn tired to find out. So if this has been brought up before, feel free to lock/delete this thread.

Anyway, as you may have noticed, all battlemaps have very steep cliffs on their borders(which btw. in the most open maps creates the atmosphere of being in an open box, when you can see all of the cliffs)

When the enemy reinforcements spawn right on top of the cliff, instead of sliding down they desperately try to climb higher.

In the last fight, I set up a defence on a hill near the point where my group spawned. After killing the first wave of the bandits, the reinforcements came only like one or two at a time, which made the battle ridiculously easy. After a while they ceased showing up at all. I decided to investigate, and noticed that the surviving 4 bandits just had their backs at me while they were running in place on the top of the border-cliffs. I found it pretty funny when they held up their shields when I started shooting at them. Didn't work very well since they had their backs at me.

Anyone else noticed this?

 

[logcoy]

I haven´t experienced that. What I have noticed is that the enemy sometimes retreats 5-10 meters and then turn around again. So what you saw might have been the enemy trying to retreat up a unscalable cliff?

 

[chadz]

I also experienced the same thing, and that almost every battle. I think nearly ever battle with more than 20 foes have at least 2 or 3 guys trying to "run out of the battlefield" on the cliffs.

 

[Itchrelief]

I experience the same. Its most annoying when I have no ranged units and the enemy archers all spawn on top of the edge of the border cliff and won't come back, and rain death down on me with impunity.

 

[Sir Prince]

Yep, it happens, often. But you jsut walk up there on foot and kill em all.

 

[zamiel]

sorry I posted this once, but in the wrong place:

I still have some problems with the AI. I mean they never use the advantage they can. Look at the following examples:
I play alone, I fight just by myself. I have a spirited charger a lance of course and I use bows. It happened that I came across some man-at-arms and knights and 9 xbowmen. I charged them, killed 1 or 2 knights, constantly fearing the xbows. But instead of shooting me back to hell they pulled out their melee weapons. And if I was within a certain distance they did not try to shoot at me, this way I easily killed all. The archers are okay however, they gladly shoot me to pieces... Would that be a problem to include some scripts against horse charges?
Black knights, steppe raiders and every homogene mounted army is not a challenge. You just ride to the slope at the corner of the battleground, unmount and go up on foot. Your enemies cannot follow you, they are just sitting on their horses behind their shields (if they have any). You pull out your bow, draw it, start to walk downwards to them. They will lower their shields, in a useless attempt to hit you, you release your arrow, score a headshot, knight killed, you back off. Repeat the process, and that's all. 32 dark knight/hunter were slaughtered this way in a rainy day. Steppe raiders are the same. Only 5-10% of them uses his bow, they just crowd at your feet, it is quite boring. Please, give them the opportunity to unmount and bring me some hard-earned victories. Thank you. (Edit: this can be solved via increasing the steepness of the slope. If it is so steep that you cannot aim at the head of the opponent, there's no problem)
Otherwise I can only express my sincere gratitude for making this game. It has all the creativity, freedom and possibilities which - to be honest - games lack nowadays. Thank you for this too.
And oh yes, if I join a fight, my comrades are still playing ghosts. If they fight someone I can charge through them and score a couched lance damage on their opponent. Please make them vulnerable to me. Not that I care for them, but it is more realistic this way.

 

[g_flook]

My party spawns on the bottom of cliffs at times. So the never enter the fray.

 

[yehrom]

Don't understand your supplie, zamiel.

Nobody forced you to play on the AI weakness/limit,
like your example with climbing up on the board...

 

[zamiel]

Don't understand your supplie, zamiel.

Nobody forced you to play on the AI weakness/limit,
like your example with climbing up on the board...

and how enjoyable is a game when I have to warn myself during playing: "hey, man, do not go up the hills, for the guys cannot reach you"??????
oh, and "do not get too close to the xbowmen, since they won't shoot at you"
a good game is when you have to do everything you know and sometimes much more to beat your opponent. what you just told means that I help the opponent to be harder to beat... this is ridiculous...

 

[Narcissus]

Zamiel ... relax.

Yehrom wasn't attacking you ... he was just saying that it is your choice to exploit a weakness in the AI. English is not his primary language and he often has trouble getting his point across the way he intended.

I agree with you and think there are alot of things that need to be done to make the AI smarter and act more realistic. Having said that, allow me to point out that there isn't a single game created that has AI opponents that cannot be exploited. Not one. Yes, M&B's AI leaves a lot of room for improvement ... but the game is still in Beta and I'm sure that Armagan has plans on revamping the AI.

Also keep in mind that you posted in the bug reporting area rather than the suggestion area ... implying that the (obviously) not-flawless AI is a bug rather than a feature that has not been fully implemented yet.

I apologize if this post sounds harsh in any way ... I just wanted to explain and clarify.

Narcissus

 

[zamiel]

I'm quite well relaxed, but it's Monday, I'm not communicatable yet, and I just wanted to show him my point of view.
I know the AI is the weakness most of the games. But, well, do you remember Total Annihilation I? The AI there was wonderful, it learnt, and got better. And Unreal Tournament 2004... you could not set the same trap twice for the bots.
Ok, M&B is a home-made game, but I like it very much, so I want the best from it. Actually I think the following guidelines could help a bit:

footmen: they are okay, and actually ones with pole weapons can make formidable opponents
archers/crossbowmen: it would be devastating if they shoot at the same time in the beginning, you would think twice to attack in a closed formation. The other problem I encountered is that they shoot chaotically to everything that moves. If they would stay together and concentrate their fire on one and only one opponent, they would be more effective.
light cavalry: they have the feeling, when I stood upon a hill and they started to ride circles around me continously shooting at me... that was great. they use their spears well too.
heavy cavalry: they could develop, if they cease the riding to the footman rearing the horse and getting melee with it tactic. just a little bit more hit and run, or they just charge through the enemy formation...
knights: oh well, a grouped knight charge with lances through the defenseless footmen...


and please do not misinterpret me, I do not want the game to be this way, I only told my oppinion, maybe it helps...

 

[Skanky Burns]

*insert a pitiful excuse for clumsy english here*

*Insert compliment for your very decent English here*

When that situation happens with me, I just shoot them with a bow. Its no greater difficulty than shooting them when they are running towards me. If out of arrows, I'll order my men to charge. More often than not, that will give the enemies enough incentive to face the right way, walk down the mountain and actually present a threat to me and my own. Mostly.

 

[Slaists]

back to the topic: i encounter AI not being able to deal with the current battle map constantly... it's either: your units cannot follow you because they are stuck behind an unclimbable hill (river) or it's the AI that cannot reach you because they are stuck/dispersed behind unclimbable rocks... happens all the time... and what's up with spawning in the middle of a river that you cannot get out of? anywhere... neither on foot nor on a horse...

in my humble opinion: there is still insufficient connection between the travel map-level terrain and the battle-field... you can drag the enemy to a spot which looks perfectly low-landishly flat on the travel map (when you zoom in) just to find yourself fighting among himalayan cliffs... takes away an important tactical aspect: forcing the enemy to fight you on a terrain which is best for you.

 

[yehrom]

I understand your point of view, Zamiel.
But like it's said,
we are in the "Bug Reports" section.
So, I took your words in this context.

I'm agree with that you hope about the AI,
(TA gave a nice opposition, it was
but none AI will be sufficient to emulate really the player, if he doesn't accept stay in his (AI) limits. This is necessary to generate the illusion,
until having a Monster that can calculate and animate more (& pertinents) information as a human cortex (cognitive system saturation !)


Thanks for your recall, Narcissus. ^^

 

[Narcissus]

Thanks for your recall, Narcissus. ^^

No problem.

Your English is still a little rough and hard to easily understand, but I am starting to be able to get your full meaning from what you say. Keep it up!